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breaking needles on hats

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Old March 31st, 2010, 08:42 PM   #1 (permalink)
dubiat dubiat is offline
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Angry breaking needles on hats

Help. I'm new, (big surprise there) LOL Anyway, When I sew on flat fabric, I'm fine, when I switch to a Hat, and it doesn't matter what kind, the needle breaks as soon as it enters the hat and the machine jams up. I have a Toyota 850 with the standard hat hoop and driver. Also, whenever I put it into hat hoop mode, it immediately turns the hat to the side. I f I put the hat so the front is the sewing area, I get a limit. Anybody have a clue as to what is going on here. Any and all help would be appreciated. Thanks much.

Tony
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Old April 3rd, 2010, 02:24 PM   #2 (permalink)
Eric Eric is offline
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Default Re: breaking needles on hats

Ok, Your toyota is basically a tajima. So here's a few things.

A limit error means that what you are doing is too big / outside the sew field (obviously, lol) make sure when you switch to cap mode you do it BEFORE putting the cap driver on. Then once the machine is in cap area, then put the driver on centered, you should have several sets of screws to position different drivers in different manners. Make sure you are centered, I do believe the cap driver fits on the gantry a few different ways.

Next, your needle breaks. This could be a bunch of things. I'm guessing its got a little to do with either, speed, timing, gapping, or digitizing, probably a little of all the above. So lets take it one step at a time.

Speed - You should be sewing caps at 700 MAX, start out at 600ish.

Timing & Gapping - Really a technician issue, a lot of people that don't use the cap drivers set the hook gap very close, so they get a better stitch quality. Also, timing is a but more liberal on caps. If all esle fails you might try a tech call.

Digitizing - Most of the times designs have to be specially digitized for caps, in a center out sewing manner.

Also, I'm not sure about toyota's but do you have different needle (throat) plates? Or do toyota's have the universals? Look to see if you have other needle plates, see if you have one that looks like it has a collar around the needle hole this will help with deflection and could help your needle breaks.

Let me know if any of this helps.
-- Eric
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Old April 3rd, 2010, 02:25 PM   #3 (permalink)
Eric Eric is offline
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Default Re: breaking needles on hats

If that doesn't work, maybe its got a stuck gas pedal .... it IS a toyota.

Sorry ... Couldn't resist.
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Old April 3rd, 2010, 10:42 PM   #4 (permalink)
SunEmbroidery SunEmbroidery is offline
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Default Re: breaking needles on hats

In addition, poorly fitting hats can cause needle breaks. If you've sewn a variety of styles then chances are they weren't all poorly fitting but if you tried to embroider a lot of stiff caps that don't fit your frame then that could cause problems. When hooping, make sure you hoop tightly. If there is a lot of extra room then more backing may help. Starting your design slightly off center (so it doesn't start at the center seam) can help. Also, having the design run further away from the brim can improve embroidery. What size needles are you using? A larger needle, 80/12, will be less likely to break. This won't work on a multi but if you are trying to get through an order of really bad hats you can use tweezers to hold down the cap to start the design so you can get through the point where the needle breaks.
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Old April 5th, 2010, 01:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
dubiat dubiat is offline
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Default Re: breaking needles on hats

Okay first off, thanks to all who answered.
I was able to get it to sew on a structured hat with no center stitching. I left it in flat hoop mode. I'll try that about doing the driver that Eric mentioned. I didn't know it could be positioned in different ways.Also, I believe I have the universal needle plate, But will check.
As for the speed, that wasn't the problem because the needle was breaking at the start of sewing when it is doing the first 2-3 stitches at slow speed. It seems to me that it is just that I am sewing on a hat right at the edge of the center stitching. I will also try putting more backing as there is a big gap between the top of the hat and the needle plate. I'm just learning all this.
If I can get the machine to do the hats, preferably flex fit twill baseball caps, then I have an order for about 20 to 40 a month. The design was just some lettering that was pre-digitized in Wilcom decoStudio. It was set to sew from the center out. I had forgotten about getting a heavier needle. will try that. Will also try the tweezers for these hats.

Again thank you for your help.
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Old April 5th, 2010, 11:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
dubiat dubiat is offline
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Default Re: breaking needles on hats

Ok solved most of the problems. I found out that my machine has two different types of cap drivers. a 435 and a 437. it was set to 435 and I have a 437. This solved the problem of not being able to center the design on the front of the cap.

The needle plate was the problem - Thanks Eric - I did have another one for caps. This solved the needle breaking issue. I tried the backing idea by doubling up the backing. - Thanks to Sun Embroidery for that pearl of wisdom. I can now sew on the caps, except now I have a slightly different problem I'm just trying to put some lettering on the cap. It's digitized to go from the center left then center right. My problem is that at each letter change, there is a thread cut before moving on to the next letter. The thread pulls out of the needle at every single one of these. The thread break alarm does not go off. And after re-threading the needle, I have to go back to the start point and move through the design up the point of where I last left off or it starts sewing in the wrong spot, either too far or too close to the last letter. I have adjusted the timing up and down, same thing. I tried to just move the design back a few increments to where it needed to be, and it starts sewing in the wrong spot.
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Old April 5th, 2010, 11:25 PM   #7 (permalink)
StitchMaster StitchMaster is offline
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Default Re: breaking needles on hats

Try taking the trim command out of the design and manually cut afterward. The issue is really is that your top and bottom tensions are too tight but until you can lean to keep that in better adjustment removing the trim commands should solve the problem. Good Luck!
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Old April 20th, 2010, 12:52 PM   #8 (permalink)
jayp jayp is offline
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Default Re: breaking needles on hats

I work on a lot of Tajimas but don't see any Toyotas in my area. The sequence for most is basically the same. To better understand what is happening and what to look for:
There is a set of knives under your needle plate. As the letter is finished the moving knife is signaled to come across and cut both needle thread and bobbin thread. There is a bobbin thread holder (flimsy piece of metal like heavy aluminum foil) that holds the bobbin thread after trim. The needle thread, after being cut, is then pulled out of the way by the wiper (located above and behind the needles). This is to give you a clean start on the next letter and not have to manually clip the restart thread.
You have to watch the sequence and see if it is being trimmed. If not, knives are out of adjustment or need replacing.
If it appears to cut and is just too short for the restart you can go into the computer and lengthen the tail.
You should also have the ability in your machine to do a manual trim to make it easier to watch and repeat.
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