Digitizer Advice

Folks, nothing personal here at all, just my side of my business and my experience. I'm so new to this I've still got some of the tags on my machines. No Brent, no problem at all., not worry. Sure I'm somewhat wrong in my feelings, but, also, I'm somewhat correct.

But in a short time, I've learned a lot, most all by trial and error. I'm just like "widners" above, almost to the T, except only one machine for now. I'm fighting 5 or 6 other people, just like me, in our area, for limited business, and all I have to offer is good service in all aspects of the sale. I've won some, lost some. I'm just trying to stay the course, and outlast them.

Those digitizers that want to give all their discounts to the big guys,,,again, you're only there until someone beats your price, and you're gone.

Sorry to keep this up,,,but to me, it's at the heart of my business and all the other single owner embroiderers out there.

And one other thing,,,,,,you need to joing the NNEP (National Network of Embroidery Professionals),,,,,you'll be surprised at the benefits and information available to the "small time operators".

Strange that you say that Steve, you just did an edit from a design I sent you,,,,,I've yet to sew it out to see if it works.

Do you not want any of my business? Just let me know!

I think he was responding to you and telling you that he can give free designs and offer good pricing and sometimes it doesn't work out. I think he was referring to the original poster looking for better pricing not about you.

Then I wholeheartedly apologize Steve, I hope you accept it. You do great work, and I hope to continue to do business with you.

Since you used my quote in your post, Robert Young, regarding my opinion of giving price breaks, I took it that your reply was in regard to that issue, price breaks, for low and high volume customers.

My issue was giving the "little guys" a price break just as you give the high volume customers one. I say, and still do, there is NO difference in who should get a price break or discount, and who does not. Your work is the same. You still go through the same motions. I"m not a digitizer, and don't plan on being one anytime soon. So telling me about your issues of why you charge me one price, and another customer a different price, doesn't matter to me.

I'd don't agree with charging me, the new customer, for YOU to learn what I want and how I want it or any other of the issues you mention, and charging me a higher price just because I'm new or don't do a large volume.

We can keep beating this horse to death, as we'll both had totally different opinions on the matter, we just don't need to take it personal, just agree we disagree.

Look at it this way... I'm sure you charge less for a 144pcs job than you do a 2 pcs job.

The reason is that with all that goes into the job (the setup) is the same essentially for both jobs. So as you do 144 pcs you have spread that setup time across 144 pcs for the job vs just 2 pcs.

It's sort of the same with digitizing/artwork... if you KNOW what your clients expect and the direction they are going or like Brent said... the quirks of their operation. You can better design/digitize for that client without much need to converse back and forth and send files and have to go back and tweak them because it didn't translate the way the expected or whatever.

You spend more time with a new customer getting to know them than you do a customer that does more volume with you and you just have to be given the artwork or direction and then turn out a product and know they will be happy because you knew what they expected before they even ordered it.

I can tell Brent, Left Chest 3x5 and give him the artwork and he sends me back a file that is perfect. But that is because he knows what I need and knows what machine I have. If someone new contacts him then he will have to take the time to get to know that client as he knows me. This takes time and in our business time = money.

144 pcs get a deal because it's free shipping on the garment, and I can pay for the digitizing through the entire deal, all at one time. I may even get a deal on volume buying of the item (rarely). If you don't make your margin, it doesn't matter what you charge. My work is the same, hooping, sewing, watching, trimming, folding, for every garment. But, I understand what you're saying.

You only digitize the design for 144 pcs one time. But, if you digitize 144 different designs, it's the same amount of work for each design, as it is for 1. Again, I understand what you're saying though.

And,,,,to throw this in the mix, if you're a digitizer, and you decide to upgrade your software, or something that you feel enhances your digitizing process, then fine. But don't expect me to agree to pay higher prices because you want to make your job easier or faster. I don't care what or how you do it. You add $5 onto my design because of an upgrade, that don't affect me, and I'll go elsewhere. You make your money on volume by increasing your work load,,,not on the individual. It's my decision to stay with you, it's your decision to try to charge me more for something that don't affect me directly.

You can't charge a customer more for getting to know them because they're new, or learning their machine. You absorb that.

This is a very informative and respectful thread,,,,I enjoyed it. I've learned a lot as well from it. I look forward to more like it, and hopefully we ALL will be here next year and many more to come.

You do realize YOU are that guy that will move on because he finds someone that is a buck cheaper.

Not everyone works that way... lots of people stick with quality first.

We'll just have to wait and see, won't we Gilligan. Time will tell. But, I do hope that YOU make it. I don't move on because it's a buck cheaper, I haven't yet. Its about being treated fair and consistent by those you deal with, that's what this is all about.

It seems you've got more irons in this fire than me. You have a computer repair and consulting business, which sounds like two distinct and very time consuming jobs requiring a lot of "hands on" dedication, based on the shops like that in my area, and now it appears an embroidery business too. Not sure what else you do, T shirts, promos, etc. You didn't mention if you have employees or not. I can only imagine your overhead if you do. If so, that is an even bigger headache in some ways. If it came down to it, which would you concentrate more effort and time too if you had to choose, computers, or embroidery? If you run them all yourself, that may come up some day.

For us, this is a side job preparing for retirement soon, just us two working our way through. We're liquid, no debt. We only buy equipment when we can pay for it.

Good luck to you,,,

nametags, we are in the same situation, except the part about retiring :). We don't have the overhead of some big retail store, employees, etc. I understand both sides of the pricing discussion but let me put it in perspective. We are given case pricing by several wholesalers, we don't currently order enough to qualify for case pricing from others. Who do you think we are going to purchase from? Who am I more likely to continue to purchasing from if I ever do get big? The wholesalers that don't provide case pricing to the little guy are quite a bit higher per items by the piece. Now, how can I compete, much less stay in business, if I can't even get the garments even close to the same price much less now adding my labor running on 2 heads....

Those suppliers that offer us case pricing and good competitive pricing on services are helping me build my business and be competitive so I can grow. In some cases offering discounts on services to the big guy is likely just lining their pockets as they are still charging the customer the same. Those offering the service just get to work harder for less or be threatened that the business will be moved elsewhere.

I understand, it's all how the business works. Just remember that one day us small guys may be big shops and we are likely to continue doing business with those that helped get us there and helped us be competitive in a time that others only catered to our competitors. I only hope that I can also continue helping all of my small customers and business owners that are like me and only need a few items at a competitive price.

Our goal is to come up to your level, a couple or 3 machines, more experience. That's what we're shooting for. We're planning on buying a small store front in our town, looking at one now, with a 3 bedroom apt. above it that will rent for the mortgage, and we can move on up. But, we're not ready yet. We have to stick to our plan.

For us, so far, the wholesalers we have contacted concerning opening wholesale pricing accounts, have approved us due to our having the appropriate federal and state tax numbers. The two that didn't at first, did after we joined the NNEP organization. That's not for case pricing, but for individual pricing. For those that offered case pricing, changed to individual pricing after we joined NNEP.

Those vendors that do offer you discounts even though you're a small timer, like you said, are building good will from the start, giving you the discounts up front. They support the small operators. Digitizers need to realize the same thing. Some do, many don't.

Your comment ",,,one day us small guys may be big shops,,," is golden, how true. My whole point exactly.

My only point was you basically said that if a vendor raises prices on you, that you will leave them. Is that regardless of how happy you are with the service? You made it sound like it was.

In my business (computer consulting)... my fees have gone up 50% on my rates... none of my clients have complained. I have a fellow consultant that has raised his prices even higher than mine and none of his clients complained either.

They are just happy with their service.

Widners, if you really do stick with your suppliers that helped you out when you were starting that is a rare trait. Which actually makes me agree with you nametags... Many times once a shop gets bigger if they relook at suppliers and now supplier X that wouldn't give them a break before now can hook them up cheaper than their original supplier they will first try to haggle the original supplier to that price and then if that fails they will start ordering from supplier X to see how they are. If they are satisfied then they will follow the cheaper product and start with supplier X.

Ordering supplies are a lot like ordering digitizing. If you order more then you get a discount.

Except that the suppliers that are currently offering me case pricing are offering me the same case pricing as they would offer the big boys. It is the same case pricing as the other wholesalers are offering. I could see your point if my current suppliers "case pricing" wasn't actually case pricing. The fact of the matter is for me to get a better price I would have to negotiate with all the companies for a price better than case pricing. Currently I have no reason not to stay with them, even if I magically was big tomorrow they are offering the same prices to me now that the others only offer for their big customers. They wouldn't be offering me anything that I don't already have with the company that has been taking care of me and helping me get there!

I meant differences in prices.

I know some wholesalers have plain better prices than others. CLOSE, but pennies add up over 1000's of garments.

One product that I produce is http://www.cajunwineglass.com We recently picked up production and have had a hard time finding the bases locally. We were getting them for 1.08 each. I went to the distributer and can get a pallet of them (1188 pcs) at 1.02 each. 6 cents x 1200 = 72 bucks... and they will be delivered to my shop. That's definitely worth it and it's only a saving of 6 cents a unit. I know I can get them cheaper... but I don't think I'll ever be buying 10k worth which is what the manufacture requires for the initial purchase and then 30k/year after that. :)

Your right, I will have to investigate that when the time comes. Fact of the matter is a savings over 1188 pieces of $72 I would probably continue with the folks that treated me right over the years. I can't say that for sure right now because I am not in that situation. We all have to evaluate what works for us. I try to offer my customers good pricing and good service even on small orders so they come back to me for the big orders. I would be hypocritical to want my customers to stick with me but I don't do the same with the vendors I purchase from. Then again we are in this to make money so there will probably come a time when the price difference is significant enough that we need to move on.

Gilligan, why would you stay with a vendor that raised their prices??? Are you glad to give them more money, that you have to charge your clients to get? Seems you're screwing the customer more than anyone!

What if your consulting customers called you and told you that you were underbid for services, would you try to keep them, or let them walk, holding to your pricing?

My first few months in embroidery, I used several digitizers. They raised their prices after around 5 or so designs, touting many reasons I didn't understand then. After a few months, they send me emails offering me the pricing as before, wanting my business back. But I had already replaced them. Why did they drop their prices? My opinion, they lost more business because they couldn't justify their increases, and savvy customers knew this. I wasn't savvy then, but I am more savvy now? Still learning though.

You know, Gilligan, I just realized, you nor I ditgitize, if I read your posts correctly. Yet we're hashing out two different sides of a like situation,,,,I want to save money on digitizing costs, and it looks like you don't mind spending more on them, and we both want quality, service, and fair pricing. Am I reading that correctly?

Nametags.

I raised my rates because that's what happened in this business. Rates went up. Like I said, no one complained.

If I got outbid on a job with a current client then I would let them walk. We clearly didn't have the relationship that I thought we had. I have a VERY good PERSONAL relationship with each of my "big" clients and most of my small customers. They come to me because they know I can get the work done. That company I was speaking of earlier that was sold to another... they original belonged to a parent company with 1600 employees. They had an entire help desk in the Houston office.

They wanted me in the local office here because they didn't even know this office existed because I took care of them so well that they never called them. As they grew they would be told "call help desk" by some of the people in Houston (that's just how they did it). They would have them go round and round only to say "just mail in the computer and we will fix it". Then they would just call me up. I'd walk in and in under an hour I'd have the computer back up and running. They would go "I don't know why I listened to them... I knew you would could fix it... I should have just called you to start with".

When I walk in the door they often go "Oh, good Kevin is here... he can fix this." If it's computer related (hell, they ask me about phone issues and electrical issues too sometimes) they KNOW I can fix it. If they were to bring in someone else they don't KNOW that they could fix each problem like I have been able to because they have already experienced that their team and others couldn't even fix some trivial (to me) issues.

One joked and said that if I fixed his issue (after help desk spent two hours on it) that he would make a statue of me. I took it in the other room and 10 mins later I walked back in his office and struck a Heisman pose and said "like that?"... He said "you got it? Man... Yeah, we'll put a laptop in your hand (in place of the football) and put the help desk guys under you (like I was pushing them down)." I laughed and said... "Nah, that's ok"

Same can be said for your embroidery work. If you deliver a good solid product every time then they won't go anywhere else. Hell, I do such good computer work my computer clients immediately started bringing me their embroidery work because they said "we know you will be able to do it right". They had never seen anything I had sewn. They just have enough faith in my ability that they know I won't do anything half-a$$ed.

Half the time they show me what they were paying the previous companies so I can make sure I'm right online with their pricing. Which is usually more than what I would have bid the job at.

Just so you know nametags... I'm not trying to pick on you or argue with you.

I like to discuss topics like this.... it gains perspective that I otherwise might not have seen and hopefully brings the same to the other side of the table as well.

No hard feelings when it's all done.

No problem, dont' worry about it, it's your opinion and perception vs. mine. And, with your computer business, you're lucky to have such a big market and customers with deep enough pockets they can afford a service such as yours and not wince at the cost. You talk as if you're in or around the big city,,,,I'm not. To be able to do as you say with your computer business and clients, most would jump at that chance. Good for you, I hope it keeps up.

For embroidery, then you're dealing with people's personal cash, out of their pocket, not some corporation logos. Your customers apparently make enough money not to care what they pay. You're both lucky. We're just doing business in two totally diffrent regions and demographic areas.

After your explaination of your computer business, and your embroidery sideline, I now understand why you're on the different side of this embroidery digitizer topic than I am. It makes me wonder why you're in the embroidery business. I don't see yourself actually doing that much with it hands on, given your explaination of your time spent with computers. So I guess you have staff working in it, doing the hand work that it requires. If I'm wrong, correct me.

Could you survive here, in my area, with your perception of business? No, they've come and gone by the dozen here. Could I survive in yours, maybe, if the market was that free with their money and customer opportunity.

As far as embroidery goes, it'll be interesting to see where we're both at in a year.

I stand by my original issue. The little guys deserve the same price breaks as the big guys. The old saying "Be careful how you treat people on the way up, as they'll treat you the same on your way down".

I'd say we're about done here with this, we've beat this horse to death.

I don't disagree with you. Just saying that not everyone will jump ship if your prices go up and most understand (just like we do) that when you aren't that big volume customer your price will be different.

You are correct in that my town is based a lot around the oil field and we really weren't hit as hard by the recession. My city usually is one of the last to feel the economic hits. In fact if it wasn't for media hype we probably wouldn't feel anything. I think the media causes this recession more than the actual politics they blame it on. They tell you the sky is falling so everyone runs for cover. When in reality its sometimes partisan hackery or just media hype to sell ads.

That being said... I'm still small time. I'm fortunate to have this inside track on corporate customers that I can use to sell my embroidery. I have been doing surprisingly well. I say surprisingly not because it has been so much but because it has been so much given I haven't pushed it really at all. It's mostly because I mention it in passing to customers are some computer customers come in and see my embroidery machine sitting on the other side of the room.

I've yet to even make business cards for this business. I have been very fortunate in many aspects including my wife. She is the artist and she helps a LOT. But I am still small time. I sometimes hire my daughter and her boyfriend to help with the Cajun Wine Glasses or with pressing t-shirts and sometimes with computers. But mostly we do it ourselves. Our "maid" has also been very helpful, he has been there for us more times than I can count. We gave him our old car and now he goes WAY above and beyond to help us out when we need. He's interested in screen printing so I will probably start trying to teach him that as soon as I learn it myself.

I hope to outgrow myself as soon as possible so I can hire people. :)

With embroidery, I do most of that... my wife does artwork, Brent (Harleydude777) does my digitizing and I do the sewing. I had to do 120 hats for a customer the other day... whew, I was so tired of hooping hats after that week. :)

As they say, "more money, more problems"

We're putting along,,,,I have to say, we're ahead of our business plan we developed when we started, and we want to stay within sight of it.

Gilligan, I hope you do well, good luck to you.

I owe Widners an email too, just rememberd that.

I hope to develop a web page this year, one of the cheaper ones you buy and pick your pages. That's our big thing for 2011 for the year in our plan.

Small towns and rural areas are a pain sometimes, in business's like this.