Is the digitizing industry in the West doomed?

nametags · November 28th, 2011, 10:26 PM

I'm not a digitizer, I'm an embroiderer. I'm new, 2 years in. I've learned a ton in this short time,,,and this forum is one of the best sources of info and experience I've found anywhere. My biggest compeitition is people just like me,,,,really small timers, trying to learn and make a small business for themselves and have someting that is worthwhile when I retire.

But,,,,,

I don't care if your software is $5 or $50,000. That's your issue, not mine. It's your investment,,,,you have to decide if it's worth it or not. If you expect me to pay you $50 because of your investment, when I can pay $15 for the same quality, and quality is in the eyes of the customer which is me, then I'm going with $15. I'd be a fool not to,,,particularly if MY customer won't pay the higher digitizing fee or I can't absorb it into the sale.

It doesn't matter if you've been in business 2 months, 2 years, or 20 years,,,you have to adapt to the market today,,,or you're lost and will be out of business. I'm learning that more and more each day.

Digitizing is one industry that has no boundaries due to the technology of the internet,,,it's instantaneous. Your bound by only the different time zones. We all know that.

Digitizing in the west isn't doomed,,,,,for those that are willing to adapt, overcome, and stay the course.

Robert Young mentioned above that it was too bad there wasn't a licensing or accredition program for digitizing,,,,but actually there is IMO. It's the free market itself. The good and fairly priced digitizers will win out in the long run, the low or bad quality and service will eventually disappear.

Great thread here,,,,keep it up.. I'm just a rookie voicing my opinion.

Robert Young · November 29th, 2011, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nametags

I don't care if your software is $5 or $50,000. That's your issue, not mine. It's your investment,,,,you have to decide if it's worth it or not. If you expect me to pay you $50 because of your investment, when I can pay $15 for the same quality, and quality is in the eyes of the customer which is me, then I'm going with $15. I'd be a fool not to,,,particularly if MY customer won't pay the higher digitizing fee or I can't absorb it into the sale.

I understand, My choices of what to buy for the business, what I want my paycheck to be, to provide insurance and paid holidays are all MY CHOICES as a digitizer and not your problem. but as an example... My landscape guy had his trailer stolen with all his equipment inside. Apparently it all added up to over $20,000! If I knew the guy who stole it and he offered to do my yard for 50% less per month .... because he did not have the payment to buy all that stuff... would I use him? Many on here probably would by this logic... Not my problem, I dont care whether he has bills or not, it is all about who can do a quality job at the lowest price. ???
Now in reality you would have no way to know whether the equipment was bought or stolen... just like digitizing software today. But to me that sure would be part of some accreditation program... then at least we have part of our business model on some even playing field. As it stands now we have digitizer's winning awards with pirated software.
I still think that as the world gets smaller inflation will force offshore digitizing to have to raise their prices but even so there seems to still be plenty out there for everyone. All I can do is the best I know how that allows me to sleep well.

DPRO · November 30th, 2011, 01:04 PM

What I mean is that my job could easily be outsourced.

nametags · December 1st, 2011, 12:11 PM

I feel that while an accreditation program would look good on a web page or business card, and the person could be proud to publish that they are certified, most would look at it as a way to raise their prices just because of that certification. Just my opinon. In this industry, it would only be as good as the individual that claims the certification makes it.

I didn't know about the software piracy issue concerining embroidery,,,,I'm sure there's one out there. As well, how would you know if someone is using a pirated software for digitizing? I mean that sincerely.

I do agree that some of the fly by nighter digitizers will pass on,,,but, those that stay the course and maintain their lower pricing struture will continue to be a force. Should pricing become an issue again as you say it was several years ago, you'll have a whole new bunch of the lower priced digitizers, and the cycle will start over again.

The industry, as it is now, won't support digitizers that charge $25 and up for a mere 6k logo,,,,not for long anyway. I'll have to wait for time to prove me wrong on that one.

And the big embroidery/garment houses,,,,they're already seeing results of the down economy,,,lowering prices after they just raised them, fewer and fewer companies buying decorated items, as their is no budget for them. When these "big boys" offer me incentives to buy from them, they must be desparate.

One more and I'll hush,,,,,,

I've gotten several orders lately thanks to the promo companies sending out catalogs to business's offering decorated clothing as well as promo items, such as 4imprint and others. Once the customer looks into the fine print, such as minimum orders, logo charges, set up fees, etc, they'll call me and I can offer the lower quantities for less than the larger companies can for sewn items. I do lower my pricing a little, but for every time I've done this, I've gotten a repeat customer.

inkman996 · December 1st, 2011, 01:11 PM

Pirated digitizing software is rampant in other developing countries, someone said its the same here but that is far from the truth. The reason is is common in other countries is because they have nothing to lose and zero government control. In this country it would be unwise to run a $5,000 piece of pirated software at your company, if caught you can be sure to be punished. In China the Government condones it. It is not hard at all to source pirated software but it is hard to get away with it in this country.

Wilcom I believe has a system to verify if a person is using a licensed copy of their software, I wish I could confirm any digitizer that what they are using is bought and paid for.

Robert Young · December 2nd, 2011, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inkman996

Pirated digitizing software is rampant in other developing countries, someone said its the same here but that is far from the truth. It is not hard at all to source pirated software but it is hard to get away with it in this country.

I wish I could confirm any digitizer that what they are using is bought and paid for.

This line of thinking could be good for American digitizers if many clients believed it or cared. ! They would order from American digitizers because they would believe their software was legit.

But how many clients are using bootlegged Adobe or Corel or any Office product? ANY software on any computer in your shop? Digitizing software is the same. I think it is more rampant here than you believe. And all because Who checks? when is the last time someone, anyone came into your place of business and checked for Any software issues? or any business you personally know of??

Robert Young · December 2nd, 2011, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nametags

The industry, as it is now, won't support digitizers that charge $25 and up for a mere 6k logo,,,,not for long anyway. I'll have to wait for time to prove me wrong on that one.

I thought the same thing over 10 years ago when we were being bombarded by offshore digitizing. Then again in 2007 when our economy took a dramatic turn for the worse and I think many embroiderers and digitizers started closing. But the sky did not fall either time.
I don't know how many digitizers have been around 10, 15 or more than 20 years even, but of the ones I DO know they are doing well and lowering their prices has not been part of the plan. So there must be a lot of clients who have reasons for not switching. maybe they believe in "relationships" still, or maybe they only buy American and feel it is worth it to them to pay a bit more? or maybe they just feel that in the grand scheme of things it is kinda like driving 20 minutes to save 3 pennies in gas... after all they can make money for YEARS on that initial design with repeat orders...

There is still plenty of work out there for whatever price point you want to search for. I think price is a self fulfilling prophecy... if you want to charge 1.00 per thousand then you are going to get to work a lot more to make the same money as someone charging more.

widners · December 2nd, 2011, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Young

So there must be a lot of clients who have reasons for not switching. maybe they believe in "relationships" still, or maybe they only buy American and feel it is worth it to them to pay a bit more? or maybe they just feel that in the grand scheme of things it is kinda like driving 20 minutes to save 3 pennies in gas... after all they can make money for YEARS on that initial design with repeat orders...

I tend to disagree about their beliefs, I think it is their situation that dictates their use of their preferred digitizer no matter the cost. The reason I say this is they can get away with charging their customers $10 or more per 1k for digitizing. Can you imagine if I tried to charge my customer more for digitizing than it cost for their order of a dozen caps? I am sure that would go over well... If these companies are charging their customers these huge fees then sure they aren't concerned over your fees. They just want to fallback on that relationship and service experience and quality that they have always had vs researching and testing new people.

BTW, I don't even know your fees so they may be reasonable and my argument is totally wrong but I know some digitizers here in the US charge really high fees and still have continued business. I am more referring to them than you. You could be what I would refer to as a value priced US Digitizer. In my opinion the digitizing prices in the US vary greatly so I guess i would classify them differently..

inkman996 · December 2nd, 2011, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Young

This line of thinking could be good for American digitizers if many clients believed it or cared. ! They would order from American digitizers because they would believe their software was legit.

But how many clients are using bootlegged Adobe or Corel or any Office product? ANY software on any computer in your shop? Digitizing software is the same. I think it is more rampant here than you believe. And all because Who checks? when is the last time someone, anyone came into your place of business and checked for Any software issues? or any business you personally know of??

Small screen print business located about ten miles out side of Elmira PA in the middle of know where was caught with a whole library of pirated software. Was sued by one company and had to pay restitution or face being criminally charged for theft.

So yes I do know someone that was caught. And it hurt like hell for them.

Get caught in China the Government would give you a medal for stealing from the west.

nametags · December 3rd, 2011, 09:09 PM

This sort of goes back to another thread somewhere on here about giving discounts or value pricing for large volume customers, versus the smaller client, or much smaller client.

If a digitizer has been around that long, I don't feel that they have been charging these huge fees to their best and high volume customers all that time. And in this market and this economy today, everyone is looking for a better deal, no matter how big they are.

Widners is right Robert, we don't know your fees, so it's not right to assume you're one that does charge $10 per K. If you do, and can, WOW!! If not,,,fine too. Either way, the customer will decide what they pay.

There's a lot I don't understand about digitizing, but I'm learning. But I do know good and bad digitizing, and value as well. I feel I've found a medium for my business, and I'm very satisified.

On the software piracy issue,,,,it's not a surprise, but, I hadn't thought about it in that context before.

Great thread,,,,very informative and honest posts.