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HELP NEWBIE WHO BOUGHT BROTHER BES 1210AC

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Old August 18th, 2017, 09:34 PM   #1 (permalink)
decaldepotohio decaldepotohio is offline
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Default HELP NEWBIE WHO BOUGHT BROTHER BES 1210AC

I just bought a Brother Bes 1210ac in really good condition. Lady who bought it was super old and got it from FCS machinery in perfect working condition. She never could figure out to use it so she gave up and I see why. The manual is super confusing. However as a screen printer and plotter person with several plotters and decal machines using the same x & y features I feel I can get the hang of it and figure it out until I can make enough ROI to buy a newer computerized machine.

My machine came with everything but software.

What can I use? I purchased a usb to floppy. But what software can I use to digitize and convert the file to put on the floppy and put into the machine to start stitching. I am a complete newbie to embroidery so anything helps..
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Old August 19th, 2017, 08:39 AM   #2 (permalink)
decaldepotohio decaldepotohio is offline
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Default Re: HELP NEWBIE WHO BOUGHT BROTHER BES 1210AC

Anyone? Just need to know what software will work and convert to the file needed for this machine.
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Old August 19th, 2017, 05:06 PM   #3 (permalink)
ltpemb ltpemb is offline
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Default Re: HELP NEWBIE WHO BOUGHT BROTHER BES 1210AC

Oh wow...... This is going to be a big learning curve then.
Being familure with screenprinting and plotter cutters doesn't really help... well it might a little but not really. Screenprinting you use "rip" software ect... But with embroidery the setup is for someone to literally redraw stitches in software.

Embroidery requires digitizing or punching (oldschool terms to refer to redrawing using embroidery techniqes) into a specific file format. Which is the processes of redrawing and programming a stitch file to lay stitches down.... you used the word "convert"... which really means your in early stages...

"converting" is what is known as auto-digitizing... and while it exsists it doesn't work like rip software it is more of a program tool like auto tracing a low res bitmap into vector art. The results are aweful and can sometimes damage the machines. Auto-digitizing is for shortcuting parts of artwork but needs a skilled digitizer to correct the parts.
For a newbie the best option is to get in contact with good digitizers and pay for them to digitize... that said do not go with the cheapest... the results are bad. Also

The top 2 softwares are Wilcom and Pulse.
The software is usually between $2000 for low tier and home versions. And $12,000-$15,000 for top tier.

Taking it on yourself is... not only costly but one of the hardest things to get good at from artistic and technical perspective.
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Old August 19th, 2017, 05:23 PM   #4 (permalink)
ltpemb ltpemb is offline
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Default Re: HELP NEWBIE WHO BOUGHT BROTHER BES 1210AC

Because you have a brother (old and I know a lot about them) and only a single head... If your seriously going into embroidery you would need more than a single head as it is really only useful for a handful of things (IE orders of 4-6 or doing specialty work when pairing it with a multihead)
The learning curve is going to be even harder. You need backing materials ect.
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Old August 19th, 2017, 06:20 PM   #5 (permalink)
decaldepotohio decaldepotohio is offline
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Default Re: HELP NEWBIE WHO BOUGHT BROTHER BES 1210AC

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Originally Posted by ltpemb View Post
Because you have a brother (old and I know a lot about them) and only a single head... If your seriously going into embroidery you would need more than a single head as it is really only useful for a handful of things (IE orders of 4-6 or doing specialty work when pairing it with a multihead)
The learning curve is going to be even harder. You need backing materials ect.

I know machines are more advanced now but these workhorses did the job in the past. It can't be that hard to use this as a startup and grow my apparel printing business with some type of ROI to invest in a newer, better model.

What do you suggest I do to take steps forward. You said I will need backing. I though most all embroidery projects need backing?

I am just mainly concerned right now about software. I know I can handle and learn the rest fast just like any other person has when the machine first came out. I just want a good software. What format does this machine need file wise?

If I design and image in photoshop/corel. If I send it to a digitizer. Do I just give them the dimensions I need it in etc etc. I just want to know how all that works with this machine. I know the newer ones this can be done all on screen.
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Old August 19th, 2017, 07:18 PM   #6 (permalink)
ltpemb ltpemb is offline
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Default Re: HELP NEWBIE WHO BOUGHT BROTHER BES 1210AC

Part1.
Err the screens on newer machines just display files loaded into the machine and their progress and HOW the file is aligned to the machine (lets you know if you have the artwork upsidedown when you need to rotate it) and have a lot more control. Industrial models don't have (or dont have much) built in software for creating art. Its a verification and progress tool. At least all the industrial models. The machines themselves can have internal memory storage so you can load files without having to go to a computer but they don't design new art.
Some home models have built in files and tools but they don't have the ability to actually create artwork new except for preinstalled text fonts but that is about it. All new files are made using digitizing software that can on newer machines be sent directly to it.

Its not so much the workhorse factor but more in line of what is your business model, what you are using it for? what kind of work will you be selling with it? How much work do you plan to sell? How will you charge for it. That determines if it is a profitable return on investment or not... Do you have a storefront/warehouse or is it out of home? (genuinely asking cause it could be a bigger investment than you think thats why single heads are always up for sale)

I have a brother 1201 and 1204. The 1210 and 1201 model heads just cannot produce the same stitch quality of the 1204 and the 1204 cant hold a candle to todays modern machines. The speed hasn't increased at all really in the past 20 years its the overall quality and accuracy. And yes All embroidery needs some kind of backing but not all backing is equal or correct.

The point i was trying to make was more a single head is... a useful tool but not the most profitable place to start with. And don't take what I am saying the wrong way. Its more a forewarning of not making the costly mistakes that we/I had made in the past. I am an expert because I made mistakes and worked my *** off to fix them/get better but it takes years.

Depending on the digitizer yes and no. Most of the time you give them the file in the format of their choosing and then if they are good digitizer they will want to know what kind of fabric it is going on, the size, if you need a hat file or just a standard left chest file. (you need seporate files for both). They will also warn you of limitations within the art that some art can't be that small or some art needs to be adjusted (which they will do on their end but they will warn you)....
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Old August 19th, 2017, 07:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
ltpemb ltpemb is offline
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Default Re: HELP NEWBIE WHO BOUGHT BROTHER BES 1210AC

Part 2. Software files and how the machines work.
Wilcom and Pulse are the top two producers of Embroidery software (with a few dozen other companies but honestly its best to avoid them if your really looking to expand in the future... because ALLL embroidery software files are pretty much proprietary and generally can't be converted... or not well. (quality loss) So if you upgrade to a software from a different company all your previous files would not open in it. (exceptions to the rule but generally the case)

Digitizing & Embroidery machine files.
To start with there are 2 types of embroidery file. The Outline file, and the Machine File.

Outline files are basically a form of special vector file and actually creating embroidery files starts out very similarly to drawing vector art from scratch but from from that point they differ and it becomes less about the software and more about the skill level of the digitizer to predict how the fabric is going to move and create compensation without reducing quality. Ouline files are usually proprietary files that only open up in the same program they were created in. These files are also what you need in order to improve quality resize edit and most importantly used to improve run times.

The second File type. Machine file. For brother you need .dst which is the standard file type almost all industrial machines can read but others do exsist but are generally related to a specific brand of machine. in the case of .dst all outlines and color data are stripped out and the final calculation of the xy of each individual stitch is created. Oddly enough its not a coordinate map as much as it is values for movement that refrences the previous coordinate. These files are what are needed to run the machine at a basic level. These files are usually something you never want to edit or mess with but it is possible to edit them but you loose quality along the way.

While I absolutely think everyone should have the good software I don't advise people to buy it until they have a year or two of embroidery under their belt. Cause learning to run the machine is really really easy. Digitizing a file that runs perfectly looks clean doesn't break the machine, and doesn't take 4x as long to produce than it should... that is hard.
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Old August 20th, 2017, 09:20 AM   #8 (permalink)
decaldepotohio decaldepotohio is offline
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Default Re: HELP NEWBIE WHO BOUGHT BROTHER BES 1210AC

I am loving all the info.

My business plan is to simply offer hat embroidery and business solutions ( Chest patch logos ). I do not plan on taking on super little projects for people who want just a name or something like that which will take more time to setup than be profitable. As a screen printer I have tons of clients who are interested in polos and hats for their business and workers. So I would only make available the embroidery for bulk orders with higher profit margins. I have a storefront business but I am not open to the public for walk-ins. It is only a hub for pickups, order placement and appointments. Noone can just walk in and say I need this. They only make it into the store if it's something I can help them with. Most all of my traffic moves through my facebook business page etc. I stay very busy with screenprinting and vinyl decals alone so I take on the jobs as I see fit.

My goal is to be able to stitch multiple business logos on polos etc. Also stitch logos for businesses on hats. All requiring a minimum order of at least 10-12 items. I have not looked into the pricing yet.

As of right now my main focus is to -

A. Find a software easy to use that will help me learn to create the files needed to stitch.

B. Until i find my way through the software learn how to run the machine with files prepared for me by digitizers.

C. Learn how to setup the machine for multi color jobs. I'm not too sure how the machine knows to switch colors or what number needle said color is on.

D. Learn to setup the hat driver quickly and efficiently. My main goal is hats and beanies for businesses. I don't want to be a lids where I'm doing a different design every day for 1-2 hats. I want to be able to set hats up and just repeat the print. I am not looking to do 100 items a day. I assume I will only use the machine a few times a week.

I bought it for $2400 from the lady so If this is something professionally others think will be hard for me or I can't figure it out quickly to start printing 1 color jobs on hats and polos I will just resell. It's a nice machine and can get more than what I paid. This lady just wanted it gone.
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Old August 20th, 2017, 05:41 PM   #9 (permalink)
digidana digidana is offline
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Default Re: HELP NEWBIE WHO BOUGHT BROTHER BES 1210AC

sounds like you're on you way to a plan. as far as software goes, its probably best to start out with at least a lettering/editing package. they're less expensive, and if you get, say, Wilcom basic software, the digitizer should be able to send you the .emb file and you can easily resize and manipulate it. i believe wilcom is probably the most common software now so it should be easy to find a digitizer that uses it. if you do decide to get into digitizing later on, you should be able to upgrade it to the full digitizing software. but, honestly, it sounds like you have a lot on your plate and you may never find the time to seriously get into digitizing. i have some customers that have been doing embroidery for over 20 years and still only do basic lettering and simple designs, and send the rest out. when you have your customer pay for the 'set-up' (digitizing), it shouldn't cost you anything to have it done. there is no substitute for a well-digitized design. especially starting out, because if you're having trouble stitching a file, you'll wonder if its the machine or a problem with the digitizing and you'll pull your hair out trying to get a decent sewout. the digitizing makes ALL the difference between quality and crap, and customers coming back....or not.
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Old August 20th, 2017, 06:31 PM   #10 (permalink)
ltpemb ltpemb is offline
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Default Re: HELP NEWBIE WHO BOUGHT BROTHER BES 1210AC

Pt. 1
I spent so long writing this digitsmith auto logged me out. But i do like that Digidana replyed cause that was a genuinely in my comments. (managed to copy paste below) apparently it was also to long.

Okay to summarize my LTR you've bought what is somewhat of a lemon... and you have 3 options take a loss on it and sell it for about $1000 or find a sucker... newbie.... cause my later model brother 1201 with a much more powerful control box but is 100% the same mechanics is worth of maybe that $2400 at most currently. lastly... You take that machine, you use it, but forget software... I can send you a test DST and if you PM me I can tell you how to load the file... And then because a single head is not profitable in your model YOU take what i say below and INVEST not in software but a used 4-head or 6-head.

(sorry to say I am not the most coddling I am someone who has lost money making mistakes but i am the most "active expert" internet wise on brother industrial embroidery equipment due to brother basically saying "we are done with this" in 2009 and completely firing all the high paid experts. And i have had to reinvent the wheel, all the others are about 50-60y/o and are hard af to get a hold of and cost 3x as much and I end up teaching them things they didn't know I actively know more about the value of used machines.) I have genuine previously employed brother techs calling/emailing me up for what i rebuilt.

Okay as a note for figuring out pricing No matter what the production method you are using... the math for pricing should always be based on (cost + overhead + profit divided by time for production)...
Now the issue that you will run into is, if you are trying to be competitive at a 10-12 piece minimum. you wont be able to price it low enough to be competitive and sustainable Your competitors will probably have a 4 head or a 6 head machine (4-6 simultaneous identical products). So essentially your pricing would never be low enough with a single head unless your working out of a garage... which... even then you wouldn't be able to compete with high production facilities meant to handle 100 item orders or so. that Said if you work out of your home... Let it be known i will still tell you things but I officially will withhold key details... mainly cause I offer paid onsite training both in introduction. Provide free tools to at least look at what your doing. and teach the basics all the way up to more advanced things. (especially on brother machines) But again i charge money.

As a note a single small 6 square inch logo can take anywhere from 5 minutes to 20 minutes to run based on detail. and it can go up from there. A full back logo can take up to 4 hours or so. Stitchount is usually the math people spout but they assign pricing based on time studies and division of production if they know what they are doing and newbies make the mistake of replicating that model without understanding WHY its that price.
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