M&R is in the house!!

pushing ink · February 22nd, 2012, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 244

I love the way people consider pricing. They price a Challenger III compared to a printex when the printex doesn,t even come close to a Challenger II and then say its too expensive. Last time I checked the Challenger II was within 5% of the Printex price with about a 100% higher residual value and definitely more reliable. Go figure!

Let's also factor in that you will RECEIVE the Challenger ll!

GraphicDisorder · February 22nd, 2012, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pushing ink

Let's also factor in that you will RECEIVE the Challenger ll!

BOOM.

Let's also not forget this important FACT.

How much lost revenue have you lost from waiting this long for your Prism? It's taking its sweet time and you are loosing production capacity EVERY minute it's not on your floor.

When several other companies can put a press in your shop in a reasonable amount of time, you better consider what the "deal" actually costs you.

Printwizard · February 22nd, 2012, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 244

I love the way people consider pricing. They price a Challenger III compared to a printex when the printex doesn,t even come close to a Challenger II and then say its too expensive. Last time I checked the Challenger II was within 5% of the Printex price with about a 100% higher residual value and definitely more reliable. Go figure!

I don't know what prices were quoted and what were paid. Like anything I imagine a distributor may choose to markup by five percent, or ninty five percent. I do think if the price was within a few percent they would have gone with MnR as it was said it was first choice, so I can only guess that the agent had a much bigger markup to make the differential big enough to go with the other brand. I didn't really ask much and wasn't privy to much in the decision making process, just another printer in Europe who I know through a couple of people and was a quick conversation, not in detail, not looking for dirt. I was just wondering how much quieter the MnR was as I think noise is also an attribute, quieter shop is a more pleasant working environment, easier to hear the radio. I guess also noise is friction and contact so more noise is more wear and tear or maintenance or shorter machine lifespan, but that is just speculative.

Wasnt trying to be pro or introduce anything, but discussing the noise because .jeff is in a unique position to compare both in the same acoustic environment, same weight and class sort of machines. Is there a noticible difference?

244 · February 22nd, 2012, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Printwizard

I don't know what prices were quoted and what were paid. Like anything I imagine a distributor may choose to markup by five percent, or ninty five percent. I do think if the price was within a few percent they would have gone with MnR as it was said it was first choice, so I can only guess that the agent had a much bigger markup to make the differential big enough to go with the other brand. I didn't really ask much and wasn't privy to much in the decision making process, just another printer in Europe who I know through a couple of people and was a quick conversation, not in detail, not looking for dirt. I was just wondering how much quieter the MnR was as I think noise is also an attribute, quieter shop is a more pleasant working environment, easier to hear the radio. I guess also noise is friction and contact so more noise is more wear and tear or maintenance or shorter machine lifespan, but that is just speculative.

Wasnt trying to be pro or introduce anything, but discussing the noise because .jeff is in a unique position to compare both in the same acoustic environment, same weight and class sort of machines. Is there a noticible difference?

I understand your point. the distributors can only add things like freight, duties, taxes, difference in country warranties,etc. the list pricing should be the same. As far as sound Jeff could answer that better than me as the presses are in the same location. I think I already know the answer but we will see I guess.

tonypep · February 22nd, 2012, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pushing ink

Let's also factor in that you will RECEIVE the Challenger ll!

But then you would miss out on all the antics and shenanaggins. Oh well I guess that's the trade off for having a reliable sturdy, performance machine with straightforward install and tech service and readily available parts.
What was that thing about Better Price, Better Technology, Better Something?
I don't remember.

pushing ink · February 22nd, 2012, 01:40 PM

244 · February 22nd, 2012, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pushing ink

M&R 10 color video by SaxbyEnterprisesInc - Photobucket

Looks like 60 dz per hour roughly. Not bad for your first day.

Evo · February 22nd, 2012, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Printwizard

Wasnt trying to be pro or introduce anything, but discussing the noise because .jeff is in a unique position to compare both in the same acoustic environment, same weight and class sort of machines. Is there a noticible difference?

I think Jeff is at the unenviable point of not caring so much about the noise of the presses. The important thing to a man in his predicament is having a press that keeps making ANY noise, day in day out. Presses are super quiet when they aren't running (or aren't there)

As far as pricing and value (actual or more importantly, perceived) it really pays to do your homework, and LISTEN to others in the industry. Here and elsewhere.

As in Rich's example, a 5% difference in pricing on two similarly spec'd machines can be obliterated once the machine is installed. In one direction and another.

A bad press can start costing you time, trouble, lost production, headaches, etc. That's time you are only concentrating on a machine and not concentrating on more important matters to your business. (like feeding the damn thing with new orders)

A machine that runs, and runs well, will increase production, make more money and allow you to concentrate on new business and improving your existing processes.

At the end of the day, it's also VERY important to be able to drive home and leave the daily BS back at the shop. That's value that can't be measured in money or spec sheets.

Evo · February 22nd, 2012, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonypep

Better Price, Better Technology, Better Something?
I don't remember.

I think it was "Better Price, Buncha Technology, Better Keep a Lawyer on Retainer"

GraphicDisorder · February 22nd, 2012, 01:55 PM

Well said.

I imagine Jeff carries some of this drama in his personal life with this deal. He has to be ****** at this point at not only his choice, but the way he was treated after the fact.