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Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM

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Old July 22nd, 2012, 03:28 PM   #41 (permalink)
pushing ink pushing ink is offline
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Default Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM

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Originally Posted by Renagade View Post
Are you saying that the MHM customers that have had to replace the main shaft on there machines are happy? If so, that is great news! The guy in the Pittsburgh rea hade to spend almost $10,000 dollars to have his fixed, but if he had the main shaft the next day from Europe, now that is some service!
There is another MHM with a shaft problem in Michigan!!!
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 03:54 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Default Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM

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Tell us this Pierre, why is it that people are not allowed to speak the truth on this forum or your forum or any other forum in our industry?
Truth? You can't handle the truth!

Though I hardly ever get involved in this nonsense, and may not even be around to see the results, I can answer this a bit, since I am involved in Pierre's forum, and am the one who posted our mission and policy statement back in the days we were just getting going, and of course, it's not about censoring the truth. It is all about providing and keeping the forum a friendly place for a free flowing exchange of help and camaraderie. not the disruptive attacks by RWB, his small band of henchmen (and women) and of course, his 100+ aliases over the years.
Newcomers may not know the history, or the reason behind the establishment of TheShirtBoard. It was born out of frustration and the need for some to get away from the crap so common on the industry forums of the day! And in so doing, not helping the perpetrators of the crap, deceit and eventual outright theft actually profit via the forum, hence the "censorship". Its first few weeks, it was even known as the No RWB Forum.

As written back in 2011, soon after The ShirtBoard was up and running (as NoRWB)
Recently, this forum has come under attack by both enemies attempting to disrupt the proceedings, and competition editorializing elsewhere about our bias and discrimination.
What they fail to mention or perhaps even realize, is that yes, we do, by choice, discriminate, plain and simple.
There is a small group of people with a history of Industry Forum disruption and even systematic destruction.
We have lost great resources. Some of these same folks go so far as to even brag about reshaping the industry to their vision.
If we have anything to say about it, it won't happen here! Taking this one step further, the individual and business interests of these same folks will not be advanced here either.
The bottom line is no one is forced to come here. Those that do, generally arrive with their eyes wide open, and perfectly aware of our position, and in fact appreciate this place as a welcome relief from the storm. Those who don't are not held captive. There are forums for them as well.
As for our policy of preemptive banning, it is not dissimilar to the common and even expected practice of not allowing known pedophiles to work in areas frequented by children.
For us it is just common sense, something, apparently not too common in some other places, where sense may sometimes also come into question.

As time goes by, the name will change, the "discriminatory" logo may disappear, but the guidelines will not. Therefore, reminders of who we are, and what we have here will be necessary.
There may be mentions of the unmentionable, and reminders that this is not a bash board either, as this is not meant as a hangout for "haters", but as mentioned before, more of a shelter.
Snide comments will probably sneak through, but I suggest that they remain extremely obtuse, as they will be subject to deletion or modification.
We don't want to garner the reputation of the board of censorship, but we don't want to antagonize our opposition either.

Play nice!
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TheShirtBoard.com where Screen Printers and Embroiderers talk about putting stuff on shirts with minimal drama, and without the distraction of trolls. "Biased" for a reason.
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Old July 23rd, 2012, 10:03 AM   #43 (permalink)
screenprintguy screenprintguy is offline
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Default Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM

How does a main shaft go bad? All that I know of that question would be improper maintenance. I know on our press , we over grease it and keep it lubbed to the gills, how does it work on the MHM, you have to grease it too? Or does it have sealed bearings? Just curious, also how many impressions are on the machines with the bad shafts and how old are they. 5 million impressions on any poorly maintained machine could have any type of issue right? Could be a lemon issue though, I don't know, just curious. Sorry to the original poster for how this thread has gotten highjacked. If I had any part of that, I apologize, I was just merly expressing our experience in the equipment buying/owning/operating realm. Hope everyone has a great week!

PS. Alan knows I think his press is a very nice machine, like a few other machines out there, my opinions were based on what we felt comfortable with for service and reliability, for us. Any machine, that runs all day, and makes the print shop money is a good machine in my book, the rest is buyer preference, I personally prefer M&R and the service and product we have received.
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Old July 23rd, 2012, 10:16 AM   #44 (permalink)
Renagade Renagade is offline
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Default Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM

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How does a main shaft go bad? All that I know of that question would be improper maintenance. I know on our press , we over grease it and keep it lubbed to the gills, how does it work on the MHM, you have to grease it too? Or does it have sealed bearings? Just curious, also how many impressions are on the machines with the bad shafts and how old are they. 5 million impressions on any poorly maintained machine could have any type of issue right? Could be a lemon issue though, I don't know, just curious. Sorry to the original poster for how this thread has gotten highjacked. If I had any part of that, I apologize, I was just merly expressing our experience in the equipment buying/owning/operating realm. Hope everyone has a great week!

PS. Alan knows I think his press is a very nice machine, like a few other machines out there, my opinions were based on what we felt comfortable with for service and reliability, for us. Any machine, that runs all day, and makes the print shop money is a good machine in my book, the rest is buyer preference, I personally prefer M&R and the service and product we have received.
There are factors outside of just grease that can leave a customer getting the SHAFT <pun intended>

If the shaft is out of round, tapered, etc. it wouldn't matter how much grease you will have an issue at some point for sure.

There are other factors that can cause this shaft to bushing issue as well and that is machining finish, example: if the bronze bushings have a rough surface during machining the machine will print good for awhile <until the tops of the peaks wear off and the tolerance is then increased do to wear out.

Also, if the geometric dimensions are not maintained during the boring of the wheel weldment you are SOL as well.

MHM has had many problems like this throughout the world and NO it is not an overnight a new part kind of thing!

M&R has plenty of presses in the field with worn out shafts so don't sleep so confident LOL

A huge contributor to the worm M&R shafts is improper machine install in the field, a plumb shaft is paramount and often not executed properly during initial install so the wheel is always climbing up at an angle causing premature wear.

2M has been the only mfg that has not had this issue because the 2M machines like the Mustang are over engineered in shaft size and bronze width, which inherently make the Mustang a longer lasting machine <even under conditions of poor maintenance>

Yes, my shaft is bigger than yours LOL
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Old July 23rd, 2012, 10:16 AM   #45 (permalink)
inkman996 inkman996 is offline
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Default Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM

Maybe the shaft was machined out of tolerance to start or the machine was not plumb and it wore unevenly through use.
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Old July 23rd, 2012, 10:19 AM   #46 (permalink)
Renagade Renagade is offline
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Default Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM

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Maybe the shaft was machined out of tolerance to start or the machine was not plumb and it wore unevenly through use.
See, we did teach you something, even a monkey can learn about presses LOL
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Old July 23rd, 2012, 10:23 AM   #47 (permalink)
screenprintguy screenprintguy is offline
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Default Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM

Thanks for the elaboration, guess it's a good thing that my shaft is plumb. Now if that doesn't sound odd, I don't know what does. So basically, this is an issue that can happen to anyone, any brand, and only time will tell?
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Old July 23rd, 2012, 10:31 AM   #48 (permalink)
inkman996 inkman996 is offline
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Default Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM

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See, we did teach you something, even a monkey can learn about presses LOL
I worked on machines long before screen printing. You should see what happens when a 60lb molder head is spun up to thousands of PRMs and either the bore in the head is out or the shaft is out, there is a reason large scale molding machines are fully encased.
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Old July 23rd, 2012, 10:42 AM   #49 (permalink)
screenprintguy screenprintguy is offline
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Default Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM

These videos show the machining process, pretty cool stuff!
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Old July 23rd, 2012, 10:42 AM   #50 (permalink)
Renagade Renagade is offline
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Default Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM

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Thanks for the elaboration, guess it's a good thing that my shaft is plumb. Now if that doesn't sound odd, I don't know what does. So basically, this is an issue that can happen to anyone, any brand, and only time will tell?
It all down to commitment, 2M has made a commitment to ship only the best screen printing machines to the world, where other companies are focused more on how many they ship per day <just saying>

You are probably a little guy who might have 250,000 impressions on your press, so just keep grease on it and you will statistically be fine <good luck>
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