ROI automatic press

majcne · August 24th, 2011, 07:40 PM

Wondering what the break even point is for an automatic press? I have a manual shop, but I"m looking into getting an automatic. A few questions:
1. Would you buy used or new and why?

2. How many prints can be done per hour?

3. Would like to hear your experiences, both pro and con on the subject.

Thanks,
Mike

Gilligan · August 24th, 2011, 08:25 PM

I'm also interested in this information.

But it will all be subject to how much work you have coming in. Look at the 2.95 guys... seems crazy cheap but even if you are only making a buck a shirt (and I'm sure it's better than that) you are making 1k/hour per machine. Not too bad.

Point 2 will be based on which machine it is... but most can turn out 800-900 without much problem from what I have read. My buddies shop has a semi-auto and one of his printers was rolling with that machine at 500+/hour but you can't keep up that pace all day on a semi.

cnasherman · August 25th, 2011, 05:46 AM

1 person running an auto by themselves is a lot less. You have to load/unload by yourself.
Do the math, if you turn out 1 every 10 seconds, that's only 360 an hour. That's a pretty good pace. Plus, having to add ink to each screen, picking off lint, answering the phone, etc...everything factors in. Not to mention, your dryer has to be able to keep up with you.

Still, way better than a manual if you have the work to do.

Printwizard · August 25th, 2011, 07:52 AM

My interest is not so much ROI but production output which effects ROI.
Is there a calculator anywhere which allows for colours of print being one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten colours etc..... to be flashed after each print station or round and calculating how many rotations various configurations may need, and the average time relevant to the amount of stations and print heads and flashes to print a set of shirts. The net speed would be faster with bigger configurations thus allowing faster more profitable ROI. The output over the multiple colours may mean that a fourteen or sixteen colour with three or four flashes may in fact be able to average four or five times the production speed of say an eight colour with only one flash, but at maybe a price factor of only two or three times, so would be much better value ROI not to mention ongoing labour savings unit costs, being able to sell more competitively at a lower rate and then stuffing a greater volume of work through based on the Lower prices you may sell at.....

I would love to see a calculator even if only in excel spreadsheet form of colours versus run speed versus configuration and size of machine to equal net average speed of production per amount of colours in a print. You could then analyze history for your large jobs, colours run and that may dictate configuration best suited??? Once you know a size then look at features and brands and prices for that configuration. There is your ROI and value based on output.

tonypep · August 25th, 2011, 10:16 AM

Such a calculator is not necessary IMO. If prepress and design engineering are done correctcly the press does not care if it is printing one or twenty colors once it is cycling. Flashing after each color speaks of poor design and prepress engineering. That said most larger presses are configured with two flashes. Either with one, two or three flashes this can add up to three seconds cycle dwell delay; depending on the efficiency of the flash. Which is why on most price sheets you'll see an added charge for flashing. As for # of colors it's all in the set-up which is why you will often see a set-up charge per color on a price sheet. Over time most shops will achieve at least a 3 minute per color average set up time (plus an extra x minutes of fiddling around time)
Lastly you will often find that operator fatigue, dryer space, squeegee speeds, and intermittent downtime among other issues will really determine your true cycle rate. Basing it on "specs" provided by the manufacturer can often be misleading.

Printwizard · August 25th, 2011, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonypep

Such a calculator is not necessary IMO. If prepress and design engineering are done correctcly the press does not care if it is printing one or twenty colors once it is cycling. Flashing after each color speaks of poor design and prepress engineering. That said most larger presses are configured with two flashes. Either with one, two or three flashes this can add up to three seconds cycle dwell delay; depending on the efficiency of the flash. Which is why on most price sheets you'll see an added charge for flashing. As for # of colors it's all in the set-up which is why you will often see a set-up charge per color on a price sheet. Over time most shops will achieve at least a 3 minute per color average set up time (plus an extra x minutes of fiddling around time)
Lastly you will often find that operator fatigue, dryer space, squeegee speeds, and intermittent downtime among other issues will really determine your true cycle rate. Basing it on "specs" provided by the manufacturer can often be misleading.

I very, very rarely print wet on wet. I think we get better print quality, no lift of or splurge or roughness by flashing between every colour. We have fussy customers as well as punch and crunch, but it's about the quality most importantly with multicolor jobs. So when flashing and going round and round and round and round and round versus only a couple of revolutions the speed and invoiced revenue becomes a huge difference. I think that number of heads and flashes is more important than new or second hand or tas,mnr, printex, rpm or other brand. Output is revenue, and that will give you profit multiples, pricing advantages, quality advantages and enable ROI financing much more than say a 6/8 or 8/10 with one flash, or even owning two of them. With such a calculator you could weigh up buying say a 16/18 printex prismII versus the output and investment in two x sportsman 8/10 or similar for the same price. Full colour, full quality, load and unload, one round and off.

tonypep · August 25th, 2011, 10:57 AM

To each his/her own and I very much don't want to get into a ****ing match but if you can't get good quality wet on wet something(s) is/are very wrong. Printers have been doing this all day every day for decades and meeting quality standards for Nike, Disney, Hillfiger and thousands of others.
Also if you were to configure a press with a flash after each color the platens will overheat and the inks will eventually fuse even if you add a cool down station (which will chew up an awful lot of heads)
Lastly no matter how you slice it, flashing after each color leaves an awful amount of money on the table. But if it works for you and you're making enough money go for it.
best tp

Screen Printer · August 25th, 2011, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonypep

Such a calculator is not necessary IMO. If prepress and design engineering are done correctcly the press does not care if it is printing one or twenty colors once it is cycling. Flashing after each color speaks of poor design and prepress engineering. That said most larger presses are configured with two flashes. Either with one, two or three flashes this can add up to three seconds cycle dwell delay; depending on the efficiency of the flash. Which is why on most price sheets you'll see an added charge for flashing. As for # of colors it's all in the set-up which is why you will often see a set-up charge per color on a price sheet. Over time most shops will achieve at least a 3 minute per color average set up time (plus an extra x minutes of fiddling around time)
Lastly you will often find that operator fatigue, dryer space, squeegee speeds, and intermittent downtime among other issues will really determine your true cycle rate. Basing it on "specs" provided by the manufacturer can often be misleading.

Great Post!

Thanks!

I can't see using a manual press for more than 2 colors.

Just because you can..doesn't mean you should!

Icon_714 · August 30th, 2011, 03:41 PM

Well, we just bought a brand new sportsman EX 6/8 to do small prints and neck labels. We mostly run neck labels at about 900/hr. We charge the customer .30-.40 a label. We do about 40,000-50,000 labels a month. Do the math real quick. If you have the work, they pay for themselves FAST.