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S.Roque - Anyone?

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Old July 12th, 2012, 09:02 PM   #21 (permalink)
inkman996 inkman996 is offline
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Default Re: S.Roque - Anyone?

NIce info sonny but not the real world not oquite.

It takes all of a nano second to press a button to lock your squeegee flood bar, you make it to sound like it takes a ton of time.

Swapping the jig for the platen takes seconds literally just seconds.

How freaking long does one take to slide a screen in place raise the table pull screen to stop blocks and hit lock down buttons? Man Donny you make it sound like it takes forever.

You really really nit picked and cherry picked everything to try and cover your statement about MHM producing %50 more than other presses, what you should have stated the Mhm can set up faster, that would be accurate but to make the set up times savings as over all part of the whole production well that's not telling the whole story.

And go back and redo your math you have a boo boo in there naturally not in M&r,s favor.

At the end of the day where MHM will kick other presses arses is if a shop was running literally small qty high color count jobs all day long every single day. As it is not many shops can sustain that kind of work flow and also be able to afford the hefty price tag of the MHM. And again you will still see the largest producers in qtys running press,s other than MHM. Not saying MHM is bad ofcourse it's just some proof that your math is ridiculous because if it were true all the biggest producers would only use MHM.
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Old July 12th, 2012, 10:33 PM   #22 (permalink)
Prosperi-Tees Prosperi-Tees is offline
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Default Re: S.Roque - Anyone?

Which model of the MHM is their "entry level" press?
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Old July 13th, 2012, 12:03 AM   #23 (permalink)
californiadreamin californiadreamin is offline
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Default Re: S.Roque - Anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Printficient View Post
To clarify my above statement...

MHM Value Proposition

* Unique and fast snap in Squeegee/Floodbar installation. No clamps needed.

MHM pull pin system is easier and faster than the mechanical or air clamp system as there are considerably less steps to perform.
Time Saving
6 color Job 3 mins
12 color Job 6 mins

* No tools easy to adjust Squeegee/Floodbar angle.

The competition requires you to loosen locking handles on both sides of the squeegee/floodbar.
MHM requires simply moving a lever, incremented in 5 degrees. No locking or unlocking required.
Time Saving
6 color job 3 mins
12 color job 5 mins


* Fast & Easy Pin locating Screen Holding System.
Holds screen end to end. No movement of frame that is common when using air clamping method which requires re adjustment taking additional time.
Time Saving
6 color job 4 mins
12 color job 8 mins

* Positive, fast and accurate True XY Micro Registration. No clamps
The MHM micro registration gives fast & precise true XY adjustment without having to lock/unlock the controls. The system on our competitors equipment moves the screen when locking/unlocking causing re adjustment of the screens into registration
Time savings
6 color Job 5 mins
12 color job 10 mins

* Print & flood stroke length adjustment
The MHM simply allows you to slide a plate to the desired travel distance.
No locking/unlocking needed and no wires to get snagged as is the case on our competitors equipment
Time savings
6 color job 3 mins
12 color job 6 mins

* Quartz Flash Units can be adjusted from main Control panel without stopping the machine.
This can be done on the MHM by simply increasing or decreasing the dwell time icon on the main touch screen control panel.
On our competitors equipment you have to access and go through several procedures to access this feature. Consequently the operator always stops the machine to make this adjustment.
Time savings
6 color job 2 mins
12 color job 3 mins

* Clean screens accessibility
The need to periodically clean the screens during production due to lint build up, especially when printing fleece, is made easy on MHM machines simply by touching the clean position icon on the main control panel. The machine will stop and the pallets will do a half index giving accessibility to the underside of the screens. Once the screen/screens are clean then touching the clean position icon again will move the pallets into the original position and the machine will continue to run in automatic mode.
On other equipment you have to stop the machine, hold down a reset button to disengage the pallet drive then manually move the pallets into a half index position to give screen accessibility. To return to normal production mode you have to, make sure you manually index the pallets in the opposite direction into the exact position then reengage the pallet drive.
Time savings on a 500 piece run
6 color job 6 mins
12 color job 8 mins

The above features will generate the following additional production and revenue over conventional Presses.

Time savings to set up a 6 color job 26 minutes
Time savings to set up a 12 color job 46 minutes

3 set ups per 8 hour shift. 6 Color 78 minutes
3 set ups per 8 hour shift. 14 color 138 minutes

Based on machine production of 500 per hour .6 Color job= 650 additional shirts pr 8 hrs
Based on machine production of 500 pr hr .12 Color Job= 1,150 additional shirts pr 8 hrs

At 50 cents per print on the 6 color job = an additional $325.00 per 8 hours
At 50 cents per print on the 12 color job = an additional $575.00 per 8 hours

Based on 5 x 8 hour shifts per week 6 color job $1,625.00 additional revenue
Based on 5 x 8 hour shifts per week 12 color job $2,875.00 additional revenue

50 work weeks per year 6 color job $81,250.00
50 work weeks per year 12 color job $143,750.00

Other Time Saving features

* Pallet change
To change pallets on the MHM machines simply touch the pallet change icon on the main control panel. This will unlock the pallet in the load/unload position. Simply lift the pallet off and place the new pallet in place. Touch the index icon and the pallets will lock, index and the pallets in the load/unload position will unlock. Repeat until all the pallets have been changed. Simple, fast, no leveling.
With the competition you have to reach under the pallet and loosen 4 levers, slide the pallet off, position the new pallet, slide it on and re lock the pallet in place with the 4 levers. You then have to manually move the pallets around to the next pallet is in the load/unload position and repeat until all the pallets are changed.
Time Saving
8 Pallet Machine 10 mins
14 Pallet Machine 14 mins

* Documented print parameters
The MHM has reference indicators for all print parameters on the machine, Squeegee pressure, Squeegee air pressure, Micro registration and memory that stores heads that are activated, how many squeegee/flood strokes on each head, Flash cure position, flash cure dwell time.
This information gives you the ability to recall this information when printing the same job at a later date resulting in a faster set up time.
Time Saving
6 Color Job













Registration Pre Press
FPU vs. Tri Lock and Pin Registration


The cost savings on the MHM System are twofold. There is no need to buy carrier sheets for the film or the need to buy a bigger exposure unit to hold the Registration
frames which in turn hold the screens in the exposure unit.
This means we can use normal folders to catalog our art as we have no carrier sheets. The added dimensions of the other systems units that must be on your glass of your exposure unit may necessitate a bigger unit than you already have.
The benefit of pre registration is to decrease the registration part of set up times.
With this said, the MHM FPU is far superior to the others in 4 ways. They are: 1. No carrier sheets. 2. Better registration because we place each piece of film directly ON the screen and are thus insured of a tighter registration. 3. We can shoot as many screens at once that our exposure unit will hold. 4. Our FPU holds the screen the EXACT same way our presses hold the screen.

This is where the FPU will save you money as there are only 4 steps used on press as opposed to 15 – 18 steps used on press by our competitors.
MHM FPU steps are:
1. Place screens in press
2. Put squeegees, floodbars, and inks in screens
3. Run strike off and micro IF necessary
4. Begin run
M&R Tri Lock steps are:
1. Place screens in heads
2. Remove a platen from press
3. Put Tri-Lock platen on press
4. Free wheel or index Tri-Lock platen to first screen
5. Lock table
6. Raise table
7. Pull screen against the stops on Tri-Lock
8. Lock screen
9. Lower table
10. Free wheel or index Tri-Lock platen to next screen
11. Repeat steps 5-10 for all remaining screens
12. Remove Tri-Lock platen
13. Replace platen removed in step 2
14. Add squeegees, floodbars and inks
15. Print sample shirt
16. Micro registration if necessary
17. Begin run
Sonny!
I am impressed with your logic/presentation.
It may or may not be applicable to all printers situation, but it is a great
place to start. As far a Sroque machines, I think that they are really well
built machines. I do like alot of their thought process.I have worked on their
machines in Latin America, and in general their users were happy. I do think
the pneumatic index comparison of an older M&R vs. a servo index M&R was
unfair.Sometimes it is a little hard, for me to follow the thought process of
printers on this board with their wants vs. needs, but I have to remind myself
that most are "startup shops" both manual and automatic. We are suppose to
have fun (very important) but equally important, we are supposed to make money, or it then becomes "just a hobby" really.The poster says he has an
Anatol, and an M&R! Was he happy? What are his normal size runs? Does
he print large oversize, or smaller standard size prints? What are his perceived
wants? He doesnt say! Most who have multiple auto machines, and make money
know where they intend to go! Simple.That being said, I really Like Sroque
machines, but would not even entertain a press made in Portugal in the current
economic times, of that country, unless I worked on the machines myself or had
someone that I trust that did. For the USA market? I dont think they have adequate representation or commitment! I maybe wrong. As far as MHM's, I think they are brilliant machines! I like Gavin Kidd! I think Hirsch is not commited either, never has been in my opinion. The new Italian company,that
now owns MHM? Time will tell.Their service/support sucks! But that being said,
most who own MHM machines,and continue buying them, have learned to work
around these issues, and wouldnt trade their machines for another brand.I would advise the poster to look again at M&R,Anatol,RPM,Tas, and if they are
printers who will learn to accept more proactive responsibility, then MHM.
winston
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Old July 13th, 2012, 07:08 AM   #24 (permalink)
244 244 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Printficient View Post
Mike,
Let's do the math. 5 4 color 100 piece runs. Start to finish. Screens shot, shirts laid out, clean squeegees, 600 pcs per hour.
Run Time both machines = 50 minutes total. This is 10 minutes per run.
Set up time. This includes putting the screens in the press, registering them, putting squeegees floodbars and ink in and getting a print ready sample.
M&R per job 8-10 minutes plus or minus 2-4 minutes. The factors involved with the time discrepency are pallet removal, tri lock pallet placement spinning the tri lock platen to all screens raising clamping lowering etc., tri lock platen removal, print platen put on print shirt. How fast one does that time in and time out is NOT consistent throughout the day.
MHM per 1-3 minutes plus or minus 30 seconds. Reasons NO platen is involved. NO air clamping. NO air locks on squeegee and floodbar. NO registering on press ( if pre press is right. )
So set ups for M&R for the 5 jobs total 30-50 minutes.
For the MHM 5-15 minutes.
Total production time M&R 90-100 minutes
Total production time MHM 55-65 minutes

Roughly speaking half the total time with the MHM.

You do bring up a valid point. On a 5000+ pc runs no real benefit.

However if I might be so bold as to point out that the profit margin is higher for most shops at runs under 144 pcs nay dare I say 72 pcs then the MHM is far more profitabls.

To clarify my statement. I have no dog in this fight as I DO NOT SELL EQUIPMENT.
Total B.S. Sonny! There are thousands of print shops all over the world that prove you are wrong every day. There are way too many reasons to list here why M&R presses out produce MHM and every other manufacturer in the market on a daily basis. Your comments are biased and you as well as most people know it. If your statement is true answer me one question. Where are these super printers with MHM presses that are producing 50 percent more at. At these numbers they should be everywhere just killing those people who made the stupid mistake of going with M&R presses.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 07:40 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 244 View Post
Total B.S. Sonny! There are thousands of print shops all over the world that prove you are wrong every day. There are way too many reasons to list here why M&R presses out produce MHM and every other manufacturer in the market on a daily basis. Your comments are biased and you as well as most people know it. If your statement is true answer me one question. Where are these super printers with MHM presses that are producing 50 percent more at. At these numbers they should be everywhere just killing those people who made the stupid mistake of going with M&R presses.
Rich,
My numbers are based on the set ups and the concept of the fewest steps to do a set up. There are M&R users that with a Tri Lock can set up almost as fast. The only difference is the use of a platen. When you introduce a platen into the mix you are slower.
With that said, let me clear up something. I think M&R machines are as good as any other high end press ( TAS, MHM, Anatol etc) your equipment is very good. I have no bias one way or the other. I base my numbers on ME doing the set ups. As you know I have had to run on a daily basis all of the above with and without a "registration system". Overall the MHM was easiest.

On a side note I want to say to you personally Rich that what you did Wed. here in my humble little town was great. I totally agree with his decision to buy an M&R and know that it was the perfect fit. I am glad to see you give the kind of service that you are personally known for. You went above and beyond the call of duty and I thank you for lowering his stress level. I said at the beginning of this post that I had no agenda as I do not sell equipment. All I asked for was a number so I could ask the questions that Winston asked. I was lambasted by Mike and here is where we are at.
When I am pushed into a corner I will push back. All of my responses to people are based on my actual hands on experience. I agree that M&R are a fit for some as Anatols are for others and TAS , etc. The whole thing was about SRoque until I was accused of having an agenda.
In all honesty I do prefer MHM simply for ease of use. The Challenger 3 is a phenomenal press and any shop would benefit from having one.

I apologize to you Rich that this got out of hand.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 07:42 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: S.Roque - Anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prosperi-Tees View Post
Which model of the MHM is their "entry level" press?
That would be the E Type. There are 2 for sale on the classifieds on this forum. However that has been replaced with the X Type.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 08:04 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: S.Roque - Anyone?

Let me get this right Sonny. You claim MHM will produce 50% MORE than any other machine, help me out here because largely the world isn't interested in MHM machines.

So what's more believable:
1. You are completely full of ****.
2. You are telling the truth and screen printers are idiots.
3. You are exaggerating drastically. A MHM may be faster to set up, the truth is that it is no where near producing 50% more because of that. Sadly you know it too.

This is why I don't buy or try your ink. You've always been overly dramatic about MHM and your ink and largely guys are not happy with your ink so I have to assume MHM isn't all you say it is either.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 08:26 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: S.Roque - Anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GraphicDisorder View Post
Let me get this right Sonny. You claim MHM will produce 50% MORE than any other machine, help me out here because largely the world isn't interested in MHM machines.

So what's more believable:
1. You are completely full of ****.
2. You are telling the truth and screen printers are idiots.
3. You are exaggerating drastically. A MHM may be faster to set up, the truth is that it is no where near producing 50% more because of that. Sadly you know it too.

This is why I don't buy or try your ink. You've always been overly dramatic about MHM and your ink and largely guys are not happy with your ink so I have to assume MHM isn't all you say it is either.
Once again my numbers were based on me doing the set ups from my days running both presses.
So I guess i should quantify my statement in the following way.
Because of the set up procedures of the MHM you have the possibility of producing UP to 50% more in any given extended time frame.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 08:30 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: S.Roque - Anyone?

While I am at it I would like to here from somebody that has run both types of presses, not someone who has only run one or the other. I will admit that some of what I say is hard to believe if you have not run both presses. So before you accuse me of total bull****, go run a MHM for a week somewhere.

Let's get this back to the original subject and discuss Sroque.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 08:32 AM   #30 (permalink)
GraphicDisorder GraphicDisorder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Printficient View Post
Once again my numbers were based on me doing the set ups from my days running both presses.
So I guess i should quantify my statement in the following way.
Because of the set up procedures of the MHM you have the possibility of producing UP to 50% more in any given extended time frame.
That's certainly a more believable statement.

Having seen a MHM reg system I can say I would assume its slightly faster, but 50% is a overstatement IMO. You might get that if you were comparing the best MHM operators to the worst M&R's. IMO not if you were talking best of the best on both.... Time savings would be near nothing. Plus first time you have to wait on a part from over seas M&R moves way in front
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