Rebuttal Post - Reports of M&R AC Print-Head Issues

Printwizard · July 5th, 2011, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spider-Machines

Wiz ... you are WRONG about the different brands ... Printex has its Market in the USA (Buyers of Sportsman EX Buyers -and- Challenger III) ... Marcodie has its Market in the USA (Alpha8 Buyers) ... China Sporty has its Market in the USA (Buyers of Used Gauntlet II, Sportsman, etc.)

RWB, I can understand the Marcodie vs Alpha8 and Printex, but surely the second hand gauntlet and sportsman market would be better placed into new hurricanes at worst or spectrums in terms of price and model comparability. Also, do you have to cover off all things and be all things to all people? If you work 60 hours a week on one brand it will be strong, if you divide that by three brands, you risk never being effective at any of them. Don't get me wrong, I would like this to work, I really would, but even big companies with ten times the resource wouldn't bed in so many brands at a time. People who will buy off you will buy the china sporty at the expense of the spectrum.
Maybe I am wrong. I am the only one really who thinks this.......
Critical mass for viability versus field of dreams, build it and they will come?
Heck, there has to be a first time for me to be wrong!

Spider-Machines · July 5th, 2011, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwalsh

Robert: Please see above for qualifiied responses to your post, and that's what I have to say on this issue.

Well ... if that's all you got to say ... well ... ummm ... you didn't do so well :-(

on the GearBoxes you never once explained what ratio M&R uses <--- which makes me fully believe you just realized the ratios are the same :-o

You did concede that the motor max speeds are the same -but- failed to explain that if you can't make the case that your ratio is different then you lost the "thick ink argument"

now ... if we were lifting ink buckets on a crane =then- you might be able to twist my "Printex is easy to move be hand" into some kind of breaking force issue -but- that is not the case here either :-(

As for the making pulley's in-house (don't insult people's intelligence) <-- Lord knows there are plenty here that ... well you know what I mean ;-) LOL

Here is the deal ... M&R did what they did to reduce the M&R costs NOT help the M&R buyer ... case closed :-@

Spider-Machines · July 5th, 2011, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Printwizard

RWB, I can understand the Marcodie vs Alpha8 and Printex, but surely the second hand gauntlet and sportsman market would be better placed into new hurricanes at worst or spectrums in terms of price and model comparability. Also, do you have to cover off all things and be all things to all people? If you work 60 hours a week on one brand it will be strong, if you divide that by three brands, you risk never being effective at any of them. Don't get me wrong, I would like this to work, I really would, but even big companies with ten times the resource wouldn't bed in so many brands at a time. People who will buy off you will buy the china sporty at the expense of the spectrum.
Maybe I am wrong. I am the only one really who thinks this.......
Critical mass for viability versus field of dreams, build it and they will come?
Heck, there has to be a first time for me to be wrong!

Printex doesn't need/want the bottom feeders

So ... you have:

Alpha8 = Marcodie
Challenger III = Printex Prism II
Sportsman EX = Printex Spectrum

Used M&R = China Sporty

screenmachines · July 5th, 2011, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spider-Machines

Robert: This civil response is a positive development that I thank you for, and it would have been even better if the information that you had provided was accurate and correct.

GFY ... Just kidding ;-) LOL <--- welcome back Peter

For example the fact that you can push or pull a PrintEx print-head by hand has everything to do with the different gear ratios being used than it does with “belt and pulley” versus worm gear reducer.

it actually has everything to do with the mechanics of worm gear itself <--- really suprised you didn't know that (have you never rebuilt one of these -or- do you just sell'em a replacement GearBox :-?

So why would M&R use a much lower ratio than PrintEx? Could it be that it allows the AC motor to spin at higher RPM’s allowing the motor to develop higher torque, and for the cooling fan on the motor to work more effectively? His is an issue where it would be great to have Preston’s input on.

you are kidding right ... you are aware that the windings/Hz/rotational speeds are almost identical on the Printex -vs- M&R ... post pics of the GearBox -and- the Ratios -and- we can do a fair comparison of your thesis

And what are you smoking with your assertion that it’s less expensive for M&R to purchase a worm gear reducer than it would be for them to utilize a cheaper system of a belt and pulley? Are you suggesting that M&R couldn’t purchase a mass produced belt and pulley system than the current worm gear reducer?

I don't smoke ... never have -and- never will ... I can absolutely stand by my statement ... by M&R buying a cheap mass produced GearBox it is less cost than M&R making the necessary parts in-house -and- installing them correctly in the final assembly (this is by far the biggest issue that M&R faced in deciding to go with a cheap GearBox)

Found this about worm gear reducers on the internet
Mounting the unit so the input worm shaft is vertical or under the output shaft is ideal for lubrication; mounting the unit so the input worm shaft is above the output shaft will reduce the driving capacity of the unit by about 10 %.

Spider-Machines · July 5th, 2011, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by screenmachines

Found this about worm gear reducers on the internet
Mounting the unit so the input worm shaft is vertical or under the output shaft is ideal for lubrication; mounting the unit so the input worm shaft is above the output shaft will reduce the driving capacity of the unit by about 10 %.

Here is a cutaway of what we are dicussing ... the oil level is like that of the rear end differential in a pickup truck ... oil is filled about midway -then- slung about (talk about spin)

Spider-Machines · July 5th, 2011, 03:16 PM

Proper Mounting ...

pwalsh · July 5th, 2011, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spider-Machines

Here is a cutaway of what we are discussing ... the oil level is like that of the rear end differential in a pickup truck ... oil is filled about midway -then- slung about (talk about spin)

Robert: Given that you are now an expert on worm gear reducers, please explain the different oil fill levels, oil seals, and bearing lubrication packages that manufacturers use dependent on how the unit is mounted. BTW: M&R uses worm gear reducers with ratio's of 8/1 or 10/1 dependent on the machine series.

pwalsh · July 5th, 2011, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spider-Machines

Proper Mounting ...

Robert: That is one method of mounting, it's definitely not the only manufacturer approved method, and not necessarily the best method. In fact a mounting with the worm shaft below the wheel is way, way more common.

Spider-Machines · July 5th, 2011, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwalsh

Robert: Given that you are now an expert on worm gear reducers, please explain the different oil fill levels, oil seals, and bearing lubrication packages that manufacturers use dependent on how the unit is mounted. BTW: M&R uses worm gear reducers with ratio's of 8/1 or 10/1 dependent on the machine series.

Sorry Peter ... but ... The ratio between this drive motor pulley and the larger jack shaft pulley seem to be very similar to the "8/1 or 10/1" <--- Spiderman accepts your apology ;-) LOL

Spider-Machines · July 5th, 2011, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwalsh

Robert: That is one method of mounting, it's definitely not the only manufacturer approved method, and not necessarily the best method. In fact a mounting with the worm shaft below the wheel is way, way more common.

Do you at the very least agree that this is the worst way to mount one :-?

Based on the admittedly vast number of these you have personally rebuilt I would find it strange that you are soooooo admit about defending them ... How many M&R belts have you changed -vs- M&R GearBoxes :-?

Here are the leaking M&R GearBoxes