Thoughts on price of a couple 4 heads...?

GrindinGolfCo · April 1st, 2013, 07:47 PM

Hello,
I am a complete newbie to this forum, but I must say it is very interesting and enjoyable! I own a golf head cover company called "Grindin' Golf Co." I have a friend that has a single head amaya XT that does all of my designs, roughly 30k stitch count a design. She only charges me $10 a design, which I am very pleased with... My problem is as of recent we have gained a lot of attention and business. I was contacted by a large golf manufacturer to produce large quantities of head covers. I did 2 dozen for some of their pro players to use in the 2013 Masters. They are wanting me to contract to do 30,000 in a year. So I think it is time to look into buying my own machine to cut out that $10 a cover fee.

I have found a guy that has two 4 head machines and I am curious as to how good of a deal they are. One machine is a 1996 melco emc 4 head 10 needle that is in good shape with all 4 heads working and has been serviced. The other machine is a 2003 melco 4 head 10 needle that is also in good shape with eveything working.

I wasn't originally looking to invest in both machines, but if the deal is a steal I may. I can get the 1996 machine for $2500, which includes about 30 hoops, but it does not include the software. I can buy both machines for $10,000 and that will include about 60 hoops total, about 100 spools of thread, AND the amaya V9 lite software and key. He will not make me a deal on just the 2003 machine.

So me being completely new to this, would do you think of the deals? Anything I need to know about these machines? Any common problems?

Thank you all ahead of time and I look forward to becoming a regular to the site!

Nemodogdad · April 2nd, 2013, 09:34 AM

You want to start an ongoing concern? Buy new or less than 5 year old machinery from Tajima, Barudan or ZSK. Also, $10 for 30k stitches is actually an extremely low price. If it was contracted out in 30k quantity expect a price at roughly $4@.

A new Tajima 8 head 15 Color TFMX IIc runs $80K new, and will run at 1000 spm (stitches per minute) all day long. So will comparable equipment from Barudan and ZSK.

If you are sure of the 30k stitch count, it doesn't make much sense to buy used up equipment NO MATTER WHAT THE BARGAIN LOOKS LIKE. Buy from a reputable dealer, or an ongoing concern in financial difficulties.

Avoid at all costs buying Chinese designed & built equipment. Forget light duty machinery. Buy Bridge type heads.

Consider contracting out your work for a year or two until you have a stable biz flow.

There are many here who can make other good suggestions for you. Ask questions.

Good Luck. Let me know if you decide to contract out your work on quantity. I'm slammed for the next 4 months, but we are looking to add more heads. We only have 70 right now, and need at least 15 to 20 more, but I always know someone (contractors with 200+ heads) who needs to feed the beast.

Jamie
Artex Knitting Mills
Westville, NJ 08093

obemb · April 2nd, 2013, 11:27 AM

Do exactly what Nemodogdad said! I'm 18 years in business and have 31 Tajima heads. Buy good equipment now and forget about it. I did the math for you, at 30,000 st., you need an 8 head running 2 runs an hour, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year to hit your 30,000 units. My opinion, I would buy 2 six heads if you have this account locked in on a multi-year contract.

Will
Outer Banks Embroidery
Kill Devil Hills, NC 27948

jthompson · April 2nd, 2013, 11:34 AM

Totally agree with the other two posts here. I have been doing embroidery since 1991 using toyotas, brother and now Tajima. Tajima has by far been the most reliable and best of the bunch. Brother no longer makes any commercial machines so parts will be very difficult to get. Any Melco that old should be melted down and used for something else!

Nemodogdad · April 2nd, 2013, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obemb

Do exactly what Nemodogdad said! I'm 18 years in business and have 31 Tajima heads. Buy good equipment now and forget about it. I did the math for you, at 30,000 st., you need an 8 head running 2 runs an hour, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year to hit your 30,000 units. My opinion, I would buy 2 six heads if you have this account locked in on a multi-year contract.

Will
Outer Banks Embroidery
Kill Devil Hills, NC 27948

Hey Will,
Just a quick FYI. We have two brand spankin" new TFMX IIc 8 head 15 color machines running NCAA Div 1 School logo's on Knit Hats. The average stitch count is 20k. We are averaging 450K stitches on EACH machine in 11 hours/day, so your math is pretty damn close! We have been running them at 750 spm for 6 weeks to break them in, and are now maxing them out at 1000spm. Once properly adjusted, and with all the thread in the proper pathway (a bigger deal than you may think), we have one guy running both machines, and he basically frames for 10 minutes and then waits for the bobbins to run out.
Compare that to the 6 color TMEF Bridge type flats we run at 650 spm (and yes these 25 year old machines STILL run good) that put out 250 to 300k in the same time period.

GrindinGolfCo · April 2nd, 2013, 01:47 PM

I understand that my current embroidery price is cheap compared to what it should be at roughly 30k stitch count. I was just thinking it would be a smart move to cut out that fee. For example, the company has an order placed through me for 200 pieces due by the end of May. So that's $2000 I'm paying to have embroidered. Wouldn't it make more sense to take that $2000 I would spend and put it towards a machine?

Nemodogdad · April 2nd, 2013, 02:15 PM

There are plenty of contract shops who will sew 200 pcs for a LOT less than $10@. Where are you located? I can recommend a few to you.

GrindinGolfCo · April 2nd, 2013, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemodogdad

There are plenty of contract shops who will sew 200 pcs for a LOT less than $10@. Where are you located? I can recommend a few to you.

I am located in the Little Rock Arkansas area.

Thank you.

Lance

Nemodogdad · April 2nd, 2013, 02:47 PM

Besides, you need to factor in things like thread cost (German & Japanese Rayon are about $10 PER CONE) so say you bought a 4 head for $0, and the job was 4 colors, you are out $160 right there. Lining, another $50, Needles $35 per 100 (and you'd be a fool not to change every needle on a used machine before you stitch 1 stitch) on a 12 color machine you eat up a hundred in a hurry. Figure in spoilage on goods you ruin while you learn how to operate your machine. Then take out your time that could be out selling your product, travelling to trade shows, etc. that you put to the back burner....

It just makes sense to contract anything over 150 pieces out to a contract shop and pocket $1000 or so without any headaches.

Ask around. I'll bet you most here will tell you the same thing. Invest serious dough and go whole hog, or contract out and SELL YOUR *** OFF!

Best of luck to you in this endeavor. It sounds like you have a great niche product. Email me if you like@ [email address]

Jamie
Artex Knitting Mills
Westville, NJ 08093

Robert Young · April 2nd, 2013, 06:08 PM

"cut out the fee" that is the wal mart strategy... sorry, but quality should be the first concern and nothing in this thread leads me to believe that if you bought two BRAND SPANKING NEW machines that you could provide that?? can you? or would you then have to hire an employee that may or may not be able to do that? While I agree that the person with only a singlehead cannot help you with this contract.... I also would agree with Nemodogdad that you should look for a contractor that CAN handle the volume AND provide quality before you go out and buy machines! what guarantee do you have as far as LENGTH of contract? do you really want to be stuck with a 5 year payment on machines if they go offshore next year? YOU are looking to cut out the 10.00 per item lady, what makes you think THEY are not looking to cut YOU out? business is business... if you contract out now and add a few other clients, THEN it may make sense for you to buy your own machines and hire your own operators... but HECK NO dont ever buy a 17 year old machine.. please!! yikes... sorry , but you have enough on your plate... once you know the embroidery ropes, then sure, buy whatever machine suits your fancy... but NOT day 1...