Sporty-Tex Should we give it a go?

GraphicDisorder · March 28th, 2012, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilligan

Well... I just have to say... you have quite a bit of options.

If you are printing 7k every 10 days (even if it's business days) and your jobs are sub 300 pcs then you should be making at LEAST 15k a month...

Ya I mean I turn my press on a 2-3 days a week usually, and we do WAY more than 15k a month, so something just doesn't add up here to me. Doing those types of numbers you should be able to make your payment off a day or two running, where I come from that leaves you a lot of time to make profit. If you can run 28-29 days with 2 presses and you are unable to afford everything else in your overhead, I think you have larger problems.

arttex · March 28th, 2012, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmd

Chinese mfg sucks for the most part in my opinion. They steal and copy many ideas and try and duplicate them, problem is they dont take the time to understand what they are copying. There products look similar but dont perform over time. There are a few exceptions to this rule like the auto industry, after years of junk they are finally putting out some decent product. Something like a screen printing press they are not going to put much into because of the low quantity and margins. Here's an example - have you heard of Panel Frames, and do you know what happened with this good idea after the screens were farmed out to china, they cant even get a screen with four plastic extrusions correct.

With all due respect to manufacturers, but screen printing press not involving any rocket science, nuclear physics stuff, not even Mag Lev technology. However, Chinese companies already successfully built all these products, machinery or plants... Don't judge quality of Chinese products by usual consumers products you are buying in US. Mark my words, if there is some serious Chinese company wanting to manufacture a really high end screen printing press, they will start making it in no time. Probably after year or two of developing and testing. Will they use other manufacturers experience? You bet. Will they copy some good parts of design? Sure. Do they have technology and highly educated engineers to make some parts of the design even better than we are seeing now? More than you think.

Some other things are more important and that's what makes one printing equipment manufacturer better than the others: experience, vision, world wide customer service, constant innovations based on customers feedback, etc...

Some 150 years ago, US Transcontinental railroad in the California and Nevada was made with American technology and Chinese immigrant workers. Last year, preliminary agreement has been signed with China about building of new, modern high speed rail in California. It will involve Chinese technology and American workers.

GraphicDisorder · March 28th, 2012, 08:36 AM

I think it's safe to say no matter how well or not it "may" be built. It is currently 100% speculation. What ISN'T speculation is who you are dealing with to do business with them (Robert) and physical location of the manufacture (China, a ocean away and easy to turn their back on you). See Playtex for example of this.

Let's not forget he pimped the Playtex as end all be all. Now he either believed that, or was lying to us all to try to get money. If he believed that it shows he is a lot dumber about machines than we all thought (or maybe not actually). If he was just about money then well what makes you think any of this is any different?

Gilligan · March 28th, 2012, 09:09 AM

I guess I've just been unfortunate in the chinese stuff I've seen. I've seen engine hoist and stands (have some) and all sorts of other "industrial" type of things and it's quite obvious when it's chinese junk.

Look at heat presses or cutters... all inferior... but hey, they come in cheap and have no real warranty.... knock yourself out right? What could go wrong. And guess what, some people get lucky... most don't. They prey on "new" customers to make their money... Like PT Barnum never said, "there's a sucker born every minute". That's who they sell to. It's not on repeat business like other established companies.

Not Chinese but how many people are ordering their 2nd set of printex presses? Once bitten twice shy. And these are the presses they are "copying"?!

I'd kind of be concerned about a manufacture that is copying an unproven design, especially one that is showing signs of failure (see Jeff's TWO presses!) If you are smart you stick to the basics and get it down right before you SLOWLY add... then again, we've seen this "push" for "new" technology by another press manufacture... common denominator there btw.

californiadreamin · March 28th, 2012, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arttex

With all due respect to manufacturers, but screen printing press not involving any rocket science, nuclear physics stuff, not even Mag Lev technology. However, Chinese companies already successfully built all these products, machinery or plants... Don't judge quality of Chinese products by usual consumers products you are buying in US. Mark my words, if there is some serious Chinese company wanting to manufacture a really high end screen printing press, they will start making it in no time. Probably after year or two of developing and testing. Will they use other manufacturers experience? You bet. Will they copy some good parts of design? Sure. Do they have technology and highly educated engineers to make some parts of the design even better than we are seeing now? More than you think.

Some other things are more important and that's what makes one printing equipment manufacturer better than the others: experience, vision, world wide customer service, constant innovations based on customers feedback, etc.
Some 150 years ago, US Transcontinental railroad in the California and Nevada was made with American technology and Chinese immigrant workers. Last year, preliminary agreement has been signed with China about building of new, modern high speed rail in California. It will involve Chinese technology and American workers.

I agree with your post! We can no longer paint China with such a broad
brush! The same as here, different manufacturers produce many different
machines, with different quality standards! I think some on this board, as well
as other boards, are VERY cautious, with the Messenger of this new brand!
Time will tell.. The tone of the poster, from the begining of the post, in my
opinion, was a little skewed. I also read previous post, which reinforces my
thoughts. I also veiwed this, as a perceived opportunity to obtain a product
with little money, and few strings attached! It does not work that way! A machine manufacturer will sometimes place machines, in certain
shops, for "try it, you like it, you buy it" sales. Rare but it is done. An automatic printer is not "rocket science" however, it is a complex automated
machine, with many parts, and should be veiwed that way. I would not ever
put a "beta" machine,of ANY brand in a shop, that does not have a person
or persons who "on a high level" understand, the total functions and capabilities of the "beta" machine. This is Very Rare! Example: Printex got
Luckey, nothing else, with "Binkspot" (Brian) and his purchase. I can only
imagine, what if no Brian? I feel the printer is being "flattered" with this chance, which could very well be his "noose". I could be wrong, but my gut says I am not. Even a "pig" thinks his owner is being so nice , by feeding
him so much, but the owners interest is only the pig's weight at slaughter
time. If the "new machine" company had a "positive" track record, then I would say, OK. Again my opinion! Does the machine come with Rosetta Stone?

winston

inkman996 · March 28th, 2012, 10:39 AM

I am with Winston the OP has no business beta testing a machine with such a dubious back ground to boot. It makes no sense at all, Miami can do it because they have multiple machines on the floor and some serious hard earned auto experience to evaluate and repair if necessary the beta machines.

What gets me is that Barnes would even entertain putting a beta machine in a shop like the OP's, it is not sound at all, only thing I can think of is because the OP is supporting Robert on this site and Robert always gravitates towards supporters but that happened with Jeff and now look where that has led!

Binkspot · March 28th, 2012, 12:06 PM

Not patting my self on the back but when we first got our press and the head boards started popping I added the resistors (40 of the little suckers) to them myself. Guys that would do that are few and far between. Or when the power distribution board shorted, not many guys would be able to trouble shoot it let alone have enough stuff lying around (non Printex parts, none in the spare parts kit latterly stuff I had around the house) to build a new one from scratch. I had to, there there were no parts available here and like hell if I was going to wait for Poland to send a new one. They actually did eventually send one (asked for 2 or 3) but needed that one to fix another so mine is still working.

srimonogramming · March 28th, 2012, 12:45 PM

Robert don't give a damn about where the beta machines go, obviously. I agree with everyone in that the beta needs to be put in a serious, multiple 4-6+ autos shop with preferably more than one mechanically inclined person who is used to working on screen printing machines. Ideal situation would be a shop like tees to plees with 10 older M&Rs, a beta printex and two beta sportsman copies. They will be impacted by a down machine, but those who were running the machine can go to other areas and help speed up production to the point where it would likely be as much or more than having that extra auto running.

E'man, if you are to the point where you actually need 1.5 machines and not really 2, then you could make up any down time by working 12 hour shifts, but if you have the work to fill 2 autos and one goes down, good luck to ya. And do not count on your competitors whom you are buddies with, they may be slammed and fitting in 2 jobs of yours isn't going to happen. No matter how good of friends you are, their jobs will come first.

Now, when it comes to "if" the machine breaks down, who is going to get you back up and running. It will likely be YOU, so if YOU are ready to take on that kind of commitment to a machine that you don't know anything about then by all means, get after it. I think we have all seen the type of support that has been given to the Printex machines, and you better get the hell back if you have anything negative to say about the machine, you'll likely have a paper weight on your hands. That puts you in a tough situation where you can't tell the truth about the machine because of the unstable guy that is the only person you have to get you what you need. If the servo breaks the capture fork, what are you going to do? Remember it took over a week for the shop in Lubbock to get their Prism going, maybe it was two weeks? If you can afford to have one machine down for a week, maybe two, then you might want to look into it.

Binkspot · March 28th, 2012, 12:51 PM

Its not so much if the machine breaks down, sling the job over the Javelin. What if its a 8 color job, then your stuck relying on someone else plus the breakdown of the job, moving the garments and hoping someone else can fit the job in.

Just saying.

californiadreamin · March 28th, 2012, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srimonogramming

Robert don't give a damn about where the beta machines go, obviously. I agree with everyone in that the beta needs to be put in a serious, multiple 4-6+ autos shop with preferably more than one mechanically inclined person who is used to working on screen printing machines. Ideal situation would be a shop like tees to plees with 10 older M&Rs, a beta printex and two beta sportsman copies. They will be impacted by a down machine, but those who were running the machine can go to other areas and help speed up production to the point where it would likely be as much or more than having that extra auto running.

E'man, if you are to the point where you actually need 1.5 machines and not really 2, then you could make up any down time by working 12 hour shifts, but if you have the work to fill 2 autos and one goes down, good luck to ya. And do not count on your competitors whom you are buddies with, they may be slammed and fitting in 2 jobs of yours isn't going to happen. No matter how good of friends you are, their jobs will come first.

Now, when it comes to "if" the machine breaks down, who is going to get you back up and running. It will likely be YOU, so if YOU are ready to take on that kind of commitment to a machine that you don't know anything about then by all means, get after it. I think we have all seen the type of support that has been given to the Printex machines, and you better get the hell back if you have anything negative to say about the machine, you'll likely have a paper weight on your hands. That puts you in a tough situation where you can't tell the truth about the machine because of the unstable guy that is the only person you have to get you what you need. If the servo breaks the capture fork, what are you going to do? Remember it took over a week for the shop in Lubbock to get their Prism going, maybe it was two weeks? If you can afford to have one machine down for a week, maybe two, then you might want to look into it.

Words Of Wisdom from One Smart Dude!!!

Binkspot ! My hat is off to you also.
Their are VERY FEW techs in the industry,
that understand any machine at the sub
conponit level.Printex is VERY lucky!

winston