Sporty-Tex Should we give it a go?

244 · March 27th, 2012, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CounterPoint

Let's analyse the market first, then analyse the who, what, where

First, the Blue Team has had the luxury of what, almost 90% of the market for years

Second, If China can offer only an average quality machine with features not available on Big Blue and at a fraction of the price (huge benefits to the screen printing community), then as long as China offers proper support (which they absolutely have proved at the Beta site in Miami) there will always be buyers for China presses

Third, if China offers "no credit check" direct financing it really becomes a game of how quickly can China sign everyone up

Finally, now that the Big Blue Lawsuit is over and everyone has had their day in court, we as an industry should be ready for some change in the status quo

Again Barnes under another name. If this is the type of person you think will support you then you should go for it. More lies like the lawsuit is over is what you will hear.

pwalsh · March 27th, 2012, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eetherman

My question is, set aside the rumors and allegations or if possible remove the Barnes name from the picture.

Is bringing a new BETA machine into an already successful growing business a smart move?

Any input would be appreciated, accept for the Barnes ripped me off crap.
Read it a 1000 times already.
Thanks

I think that you’re operating under a great illusion that it’s worth the risk to invest 50% to 60% of the cost of a qualified new press from a reputable manufacturer, on an unproven piece of gear from an unknown and untested manufacturer. You are going into this deal with the full knowledge that the presses aren’t right and that your sole US based support provider is going to be Robert. Believe me if there’s any major ongoing issues with the equipment there’s no way that you will be able to seek recompense directly from the Chinese based manufacture, that just isn’t going to happen.

I realize that RWB is a polarizing presence in the industry and that he draws a lot of negative attention but the fact is that there are people out there who purchased machines from him over the past couple of years that either are not getting the service and support that was guaranteed to them, who received equipment that does not meet the specifications of what they were sold, and in some cases never received the equipment that they bought and paid for. The problem that these people face is that neither the manufacturer or their selling agent has any legitimate business entity with any assets on US soil that they can pursue for damages or to enforce the fulfillment their contracts.

I’m also thinking back to the timing of when the first two Beta China Sporty’s were installed in Miami and I think that we’re coming up on the date that payment is due for these machines. It would be interesting to know if the great deal that you are being offered is for a brand new press out of China, or one of these original machines that has all of the “upgrades” installed on it. Bottom line, buying one of these China Sporty presses is a fairly high risk investment, and only you can balance the risk vs. reward for your business in making this purchase decision.

CounterPoint · March 27th, 2012, 07:00 AM

The biggest question the reader here should be asking is, what are the behind the scenes motivations of these posters?

Who is 244 and why does he care so much?
Who is Pwalsh and why does he care so much?
Who is GraphicDisorder and why does he care so much?
Who is PushingInk and why does he care so much?
Who is californiadreamin and why does he care so much?
Who is inkman996 and why does he care so much?
Who is jmd and why does he care so much?

Then, we have all seen the numerous aliases that are here just to bash like "The Bumper" who are these people and what are their behind the scenes motives?

CounterPoint · March 27th, 2012, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 244

Again Barnes under another name. If this is the type of person you think will support you then you should go for it. More lies like the lawsuit is over is what you will hear.

Are you saying the motion to dismiss was not granted in this case

CounterPoint · March 27th, 2012, 07:17 AM

Yep Peter, this machines look identical

LOL

Note: if you are going to make misleading statements at least base them on a small shred of truth (you make the rest of us machine pimps look bad)

Attention Readers - all the China Sporty presses were all 12 color 14 station all the China Sporty-Tex presses are currently 8 color 10 station and the starter of this thread is asking about getting a 10 color 12 station China Sporty-Tex

Now you as a reader here need to ask yourself how deep does this industry rabbit hole really go?

squeegee · March 27th, 2012, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eetherman

I'm pretty sure I know what's needed for my business. Unfortunately things like wife, kids, house and existing bills will not allow a new 10/12. Sure I would love to have a new machine but highley unlikely $65 for new or spend around $25 to $30 for a used. Or possibly get a new one that needs to be proven in the market, these are my options. I'm not made of money and the last thing I would buy is a new machine is if I didn't need it. I'm running 2000 prints in a day on a jav while a guy stands on the chameleon printing another 100 pieces on darks. This is happening more and more, a 2nd shift would for sure kill my brain, and I'm over 60hr weeks, like I said wife and kids.

You are pretty sure? I don't bother posting much anymore because most of what I read is the same old dribble, but if you are only pretty sure, it sounds to me like you need to have more financial facts about your business in order to make an informed decision.

I only know what you say, but if you are working so many hours, an unproven machine that could break down or have problems would be a nightmare. It's definitely a risky move if you ask me. Personally I wouldn't risk my business on any beta macine unless I could absolutely live without the extra needed floor space and production capacity. I would want to be prepared for the worst case scenario.

Binkspot · March 27th, 2012, 07:33 AM

Two points/questions:

1. Is it just me or do others think its strange the people who are vocal on these matters all keep their screen name and never hide behind aliases. To me this says a lot. Where as the one in question changes his daily sometimes several times a day. Red flag in my book.

2. How in gods name are the discussions going on here at Digitsmith or any law suits holding back the industry in any way.

244 · March 27th, 2012, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CounterPoint

The biggest question the reader here should be asking is, what are the behind the scenes motivations of these posters?

Who is 244 and why does he care so much?
Who is Pwalsh and why does he care so much?
Who is GraphicDisorder and why does he care so much?
Who is PushingInk and why does he care so much?
Who is californiadreamin and why does he care so much?
Who is inkman996 and why does he care so much?
Who is jmd and why does he care so much?

Then, we have all seen the numerous aliases that are here just to bash like "The Bumper" who are these people and what are their behind the scenes motives?

People who care about the industry and not about filling their pockets with unsuspecting printers money would be about right!

GraphicDisorder · March 27th, 2012, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CounterPoint

Let's analyse the market first, then analyse the who, what, where

Start with you are Robert Barnes...

Quote:

Originally Posted by CounterPoint

First, the Blue Team has had the luxury of what, almost 90% of the market for years

They earned it, deserve it, and do exactly as they say. Something you could learn a lot from. With as obsessed as you are about M&R and others you would think you'd take better notes on how to offer that type of service support.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CounterPoint

Second, If China can offer only an average quality machine with features not available on Big Blue and at a fraction of the price (huge benefits to the screen printing community), then as long as China offers proper support (which they absolutely have proved at the Beta site in Miami) there will always be buyers for China presses

Who sets out to be average? Average machine, what? LOL. So by your own admission, average machine. Got ya. Backed by you right? Using your own track record with your Playtex support, you are going to offer POOR service and support to a average machine. This already sounds bad...... If anyone decides to sign up for that, no sympathy from me. The man is telling you it's a mess before it even ships. Imagine the car commercials if they were based on some bs like you push. I can hear the commercials already, "come on down folks and buy a average car that we will have to service and support but we are often not here to do that since we constantly have to play on the internet to find suckers to buy these things."

Quote:

Originally Posted by CounterPoint

Third, if China offers "no credit check" direct financing it really becomes a game of how quickly can China sign everyone up

People will all line up and "buy" them and never pay the bill. Sounds good. Maybe put them out front and offer rides on it for $1 a rotation. 2 rotations if it will run that long.

CounterPoint · March 27th, 2012, 07:48 AM

First, let's break it down into smaller pieces so we can attempt to swallow this Blue Stench

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwalsh

I think that you’re operating under a great illusion that it’s worth the risk to invest 50% to 60% of the cost of a qualified new press from a reputable manufacturer, on an unproven piece of gear from an unknown and untested manufacturer. You are going into this deal with the full knowledge that the presses aren’t right and that your sole US based support provider is going to be Robert. Believe me if there’s any major ongoing issues with the equipment there’s no way that you will be able to seek recompense directly from the Chinese based manufacture, that just isn’t going to happen.

First, the gear is not so "unproven" (insert Miami info here)
Second, the mfg is not untested in the least, here is a pic of just one of their facilities

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwalsh

I realize that RWB is a polarizing presence in the industry and that he draws a lot of negative attention but the fact is that there are people out there who purchased machines from him over the past couple of years that either are not getting the service and support that was guaranteed to them, who received equipment that does not meet the specifications of what they were sold, and in some cases never received the equipment that they bought and paid for. The problem that these people face is that neither the manufacturer or their selling agent has any legitimate business entity with any assets on US soil that they can pursue for damages or to enforce the fulfillment their contracts.

That is a great story Peter is telling, however there are two critical pieces of this puzzle that are conveniently missing:

1- the MFG involved in Peter's story is Printex and just like you are witnessing here on DigitSmith, what role has the Blue Crew played in undermining Printex and it's abilities to regain traction in the USA market

2- China has watched very carefully the mistakes that Printex made and will not follow the Printex path

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwalsh

I’m also thinking back to the timing of when the first two Beta China Sporty’s were installed in Miami and I think that we’re coming up on the date that payment is due for these machines. It would be interesting to know if the great deal that you are being offered is for a brand new press out of China, or one of these original machines that has all of the “upgrades” installed on it. Bottom line, buying one of these China Sporty presses is a fairly high risk investment, and only you can balance the risk vs. reward for your business in making this purchase decision.

Laughable (see earlier post on model sizes) the SPIN is making me dizzier

Once again, as a reader ask yourself why are these dozen or so posters so interested in undermining new competition into the marketplace?

^^^ FOLLOW THE MONEY ^^^